Seth_X_of_Fortree #fundie

Seth_X_of_Fortree #fundie serebiiforums.com

Anyways, most of you that know me know my view on abortion

But is it unconstitutional?

It is.

Do you remember the three basic things that we, as a citizen, are guaranteed? LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

By using abortion, we are, in fact, denying fetuses (I'd rather refer to them as babies) a basic right that they are guaranteed.

So, in fact, abortion is you saying, "Screw the constitution! I don't want this baby to have a basic right!"

Discuss, and don't say, "It's not life, it just has the potential for life!", because you are taking away a right of it any way you cut it.

58 comments

old comment by Rubyfruit

By using abortion, we are, in fact, denying fetuses (I'd rather refer to them as babies) a basic right that they are guaranteed.

But...a fetus doesn't count as a baby until after it's born! Then what? Possibly, the Hypothetical Fetus becomes a Hypothetical Baby, and is born into an environment of hostility? Wouldn't that hinder the Hypothetical Baby's "right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"?

Or, what about miscarriage? Ectoptic pregnancy? Death in childbirth? Sudden Infant Death Syndrome? Stillbirth? Horrible, crippling diseases that lower the quality of life for the Hypothetical Baby (like the girl without a face)?

All that aside, stop quoting the Declaration of Independence like it's the Constitution. It might help your argument, but as far as I can see, it's beyond saving.

old comment by Not Fundie

This isn't a fundie position.

The debate here is whether life begins at birth or at some stage prior to birth.

All people are protected from murder in the US, whether they are citizens or not.

If you believe that life begins at some stage prior to birth (let's say you believe it begins at 6 months since they have a good chance of surviving in neonatal intensive care at this point) then it doesn't take GOD or fundamentalism to believe that ending that life is wrong past that point.

Here is what the delcaration actually says- Note that it does not mention "citizen" or being "born."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

Thus, the declaration itself refers to the Creator. Anyone who believes that a creator creates life prior to birth, would logically believe that the declaration would insist that life be protected.

This doesn't require fundamentalism or even strong religious convictions.

old comment by Alena

@ Not Fundie:

Either way, the guy's still wrong. He has the wrong document, for one thing, and for another, this is what the Constitution says:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Born. BOOOOORN. It's not unconstitutional to have an abortion because the fetus hasn't popped out yet.

old comment by not fundie

As technology gets better, the maximum age of killing a fetus should get lower.

If you can put the fetus in a hospital respirator and it can survive and grow up normally, it has to be considered its own independent person.

It may not be unconstitutional, but killing a person, even a non-citizen, is against the spirit of the founders of this country.

The argument is over what constitutes a person.

It is important to come to a consensus decision on this issue whether you are pro-choice or pro-life. I wouldn't want to rely on a supreme court decision that can be changed as members retire- If they rule against you, there is nothing you can do to change their minds. At least with laws created by elected legislators, an incorrect decision can be reversed with popular support.

“But is it unconstitutional?
It is.”
Even the decision to turn it over to the states didn’t say it was unconstitutional.

“Do you remember the three basic things that we, as a citizen, are guaranteed? LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Those are the reasons we told King George to fuck off. Because we, the colonists, wanted to chase those ideals.
The 14th Amendment grants citizenship to those BORN in the United states.
Not those who haven’t been born here, yet.

“By using abortion, we are, in fact, denying fetuses (I'd rather refer to them as babies) a basic right that they are guaranteed.”
No, we’re not.
By using abortion, we’re granting basic rights to the pregnant woman who owns the uterus.

“So, in fact, abortion is you saying, "Screw the constitution! I don't want this baby to have a basic right!"”
Nope. Not even close.

“Discuss, and don't say, "It's not life, it just has the potential for life!", because you are taking away a right of it any way you cut it.”
Except legally…

Seth_X_of_Fortree #fundie serebiiforums.com

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