ShieldOFaith #fundie

ShieldOFaith #fundie foru.ms

[This posted in response to a user who said "communism, I think, is okay."]

New wage, sorry, communism is the worst of all of them when it comes to murdering human beings. There has been more human beings murdered under the name of communism than any other thing on this earth ever. So burning the communist manifesto is a beautiful thing.

49 comments

old comment by Mrdie

Bulcher, I should note that Lenin is the man who popularized the idea of a dictatorship of the proletariat. The first man to use the word was Joseph Weydemeyer.

"Now as for myself, I do not claim to have discovered either the existence of classes in modern society or the struggle between them. Long before me, bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this struggle between the classes, as had bourgeois economists their economic anatomy. My own contribution was 1. to show that the existence of classes is merely bound up with certain historical phases in the development of production; 2. that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat; 3. that this dictatorship itself constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society." - Marx, 1882

old comment by Tiny Bulcher

I agree Lenin's interpretation of Marxist texts was definitely not Marx's, but that's neither here nor there. My view is that Marx was, quite frankly, wrong. The quote above is a good example of said wrongness. There is no 'class struggle', there never was; no 'class' has ever acted as a united conscious entity, and Marx's claim that they did or could was simply the grandest of paranoid conspiracy theories. And even if there was such a thing as a 'class struggle', it would not necessarily lead to any particular outcome, let alone the mythical 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. And thirdly, the idea that any dictatorship could lead to the abolition of classes, or anything else other than the abolition of freedom is away with the fairies.

old comment by CalRC

Ooh, I would have said that God murdered more than communism ever did, to be honest. Have you forgotten the Great Flood (TM)?

Also, it's worth pointing out that true communism has never existed; Russia became a Bolshevik dictatorship under Lenin long before getting anywhere near the steps Marx advocated to reaching communism. It was barely even socialism! Most political students would agree that Marxism as an ideology is superior to capitalism in practically every ethical and moral way, but in the real world the greed of dictators has always prevented communist revolutions ever getting anywhere, so nobody's ever been able to find out.

Cuba's not too bad, though. Don't know how it's perceived in the USA (there's obviously some history between Cuba and USA!) but here in the UK most people seem to be ambivalent; sure, the people are poor, but it doesn't matter so much if they don't mind, which seems to be the theme.

Oh, and if we're gonna start burning books (a REALLY stupid and wasteful idea) can I go first? Jeebus and his Bible are highly flammable, so I hear.

old comment by Anon2

Well, I even agree to a certain point. Burning any book is of course a crazy fundie idea and NOT a "beautiful thing".

Communism is something which sounds great in theory, but fails spectacularly in practice. Many people don't like to hear it, but all attempts in establishing communism in a society of millions of people usually results in a nightmare. Examples: The Soviet Union under Stalin. China under Mao. Cambodia under Pol Pot. North Korea under Kim Jong Il. Millions of people died there, by starvation, in the Gulag, executed after show trials, and a lot more. It doesn't matter whether capitalism, religions or anything else allegedly murdered more or less people (the real numbers are disputed). A murderer cannot defend himself by claiming that another murderer has killed more people.

Guys, please don't close your eyes. This would be the same fallacy as Christians who ignore the crusades, the inquisition, and the general misery which their religion has brought over the world.

To claim for example: "The soviet union under Stalin wasn't real communism!" is a textbook example of the "No real scotsman" fallacy.

In the last consequence, communism is a faith system like religion, and communism has borrowed a lot of concepts from christianity: Eschatology (the world is in a battle between good and evil, there will be a final struggle where good will prevail, after that humanity will live in a paradise forever). Worship of Saints (Che Guevara, anyone?). Holy Scriptures which must not be questioned, and which are seldom read (Das Kapital. Who has read it? Please be honest...)

ShieldOFaith #fundie foru.ms

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