In short, not dating a person BECAUSE they are trans is transphobic; as is making a blanket statement 'not attracted to trans women', because that statement stems purely from prejudice. That said it's best you probably not date any trans person if that's the way you feel about them.
46 comments
In short, not dating a person BECAUSE they are fundie is reasonable; as is making a blanket statement 'not attracted to a nutjob like me', because that statement stems purely from avoiding crazy people. That said it's best you probably not date any fundie person if that's the way you feel about them.
Fixed
@Nemo: presumably this quote is here because it's bigoted and wrong.
noone is *entitled* to my dating them. hence, my choice to not date someone for being transgendered cannot be considered discriminatory. if it's prejudiced, then it is so mostly in the literal sense of the word; and so long as i do not express this prejudice by any more harmful means than simply not giving some random person something to which they're not entitled anyway (such as a date), i really don't see what cause they have for complaint.
Hmm...the odd thing is I've come across someone who thought the same. I was accused of being transphobic for not wanting to date a trans woman. Nevermind the fact that she has a personality like coarse sandpaper and I just couldn't stand being in the same room as her...
I think it's wrong to say that not finding someone attractive because of a feature is a prejudice. Shallow, maybe, but you can't help what you find attractive. Not finding a trans individual attractive due to that feature...isn't really transphobia anymore than not finding a certain features in a race attractive is racism.
Hm. Of course it's *possible* for someone to not want to date a trans person because they are trans and have it come down to being a preference-- if their reason is like, say, they want to have biological children eventually and being with said trans person would not allow this. That being said, it is often very difficult for people to examine their preferences in order to discover whether they are based on, at least in part, prejudice and fear. More subtle transphobia certainly exists and it is rather pervasive. People can claim they have "no problem with trans people" and still hold prejudices against trans people and embrace transphobic attitudes. It's like having preferences when it comes to race-- it could more or less be a preference, but "sexual racism" is a thing, whether people acknowledge it or not.
Stating that one is simply "not attracted to trans women," flat out, when they are typically attracted to women in general is... pretty disingenuous and discriminatory, to say the least, as trans people do pass as the gender they identify with and it's not as if someone can necessarily know this. Reminds me of the time I heard a lesbian say they "just weren't attracted to bi or straight women." Like, you can tell just by looking?
Your dating/sexual preferences are yours alone. I for one have no physical attraction whatsoever to black people, bald people, overweights and pretty much any male with a cut penis(the guy might be the most studdy stud who ever studded, I simply can`t get excited for a cut sausage). Doesn`t make me any more of a bigot than a statment that I prefer tuna meat to salmon, that I like to eat piri-piris straight out of a jar or that I would not eat another mammal`s brain or genitals but will happily devour insects.
@Deep Search:
You can call it how you like, but you still can`t deny people their personal preferences in their own sex lives, even if such are at least partialy based in prejudice.
@skidie... Who's denying anyone their sexual preferences by pointing out that said preferences are, or could be, based on prejudices? This doesn't equate to forcing anyone to date or not date anyone else, yeah?
It's interesting that "no whites" isn't a thing so much when it comes to dating. Wonder why that is? Yet, entire minority groups get crossed off like it's not "problematic" in the least.
@Deep Search:
Dunno, I actually know a few people who will not date whites on principle.
Also in my case at least it`s not crossing out an ethnicity as a whole, simply that very, very few of the given ethnicity exhibit the combinations of physical traits I find sexualy attractive. I don`t operate in absolutes when it comes to preference and should I ever meet a black person I`ll find attractive, it wouldn`t come to me as a suprise.
Not being attracted to a trans person is obviously fine - if you are not attracted to that person you are not attracted to that person.
Not dating a person simply because you know they are trans, rather than not being attracted to them, is obvious prejudice.
To put it in another context, I personally find proportionately less Asian women I meet attractive than European women I meet. Not because they are Asian, but because, gee wiz, they as individuals just don't do it for me. Some Asian women I meet, say about 20%, I certainly DO find attractive, and would be fine dating.
But if I said "I'm never dating any Asian woman ever because they are Asian", then obviously that's racist. In that case I am not dating them because they are Asian, not because I don't find them attractive.
In short, assuming the poster means what I think they mean, their position is in my view exactly right.
If you just aren't attracted to them, you aren't necessarily a bigot.
If you ARE attracted to them until you learn they are (post op) trans, and THEN you no longer are attracted, that's bigotry.
If they are pre operative AND you are not bi, that's not necessarily bigotry. As long as you aren't disgusted by it.
If you are attracted to a person until you learn they are infertile, and infertility changes your attraction, that's bigotry, and you should make sure everyone knows you don't want a partner, you want a baby maker.
In short, it's complicated.
@Yog-Sothoth, ChakatBlackstar
Sexual attraction is based on what turns an individual on, which is different for every human being. It is not comparable to whether or not stores will bake cakes for gay people, for example, because stores can choose whether or not to bake cakes, but store owners can't choose who or what turns them on.
In short, calling people "transphobes" because of who they're not attracted to is a nasty manipulation attempt, a passive-aggressive way of manipulating other people's preferences to your advantage by using the label of bigotry to "guilt-trip" them into thinking your way.
Omfg. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've read all day (and it's not even noon where I am). For the love of pasta, I'm a trans person, and I'm not especially down with having sex with other trans folks (I've tried - it messes with my head in ways I find extremely unpleasant). Like others have said, nobody is entitled to a date, not even a member of a marginalized community.
I don't date people I'm not attracted to AND NEITHER DO YOU. So fucking bite me. And I say that as someone who is attracted to trans women.
@Deep Search
@Demon Duck of Doom
Everyone take a good, long look at Icesperg just above me. THAT is transphobia. Not turning them down when they ask you out. Not saying "not really my thing". THAT. What the hell has happened to this place recently?
If the ONLY reason someone won't date a trans person is because they're trans, *then* it's transphobic. If you have a shit personality and a victim complex, then it's not because you're trans that they won't date you.
Folks seem to be glossing over the blanket statements being problematic and transphobic-- that someone wouldn't date a person because they are trans and saying one simply cannot be attracted to trans people, in general. Keep in mind that trans people are a marginalized minority group-- talking about deep-seated and casual transphobia when it comes to dating is important, as it's hardly addressed enough. This has nothing to do with coercion. The OP's comment is chopped and it links to another post which states:
And the last sentence from the OP is basically stating the obvious. They aren't saying that trans people are owed dates or anything along those lines.
@ nopants... Yeah, blatant transphobia is gross and blatant. I suppose that means that more covert discrimination and prejudice, which is subtle and may be unintentional, doesn't exist then.
@Admiral Nopants
How exactly am I transphobic? Is it because I used the word "tranny"? Or is it because I refuse to feed the delusions of trannies that they aren't in the middle of the uncanny valley?
Trannies have every right to mutilate themselves and scream and cry that they're "real men/women", but they don't get to force other people to play along. I used to not give a shit about this transgender garbage until Bruce Jenner and the LGBT circus started putting their degeneracy on display and guilt-tripped the media into respecting their farcical lifestyles.
I think Deepsearch just really hit the nail on the head. Nicely said, my friend.
As for Icesperg...
I'm not trans nor do I pretend to know exactly what it's like. But I am an empathetic human being and I've seen some of the shit they've gone through. They didn't just appear overnight because of Jenner or some "LGBT circus" you've dreamed up. They've been here all along. They've only just recently found a voice and are getting some degree of public acceptance. They deserve to be treated like people. Is that so difficult?
Should people go against their natural sexual preferences? No, certainly not. Others have already put that debate to bed in much better words than I can.
But that undercurrent of hate raises my hackles. So you don't like transwomen? Fine! Don't date them! There, problem solved! There's no need to marginalize them further.
Okay, undeploying my berserk button and moving on.
[IMG]http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/KidCthulhu/Tangentville/InPlainSight_zpscpvmfrtb.jpg[/IMG]
Kid Cthulhu has spoken.
@Deep Search
Huh, well if the original poster's comment was chopped, that's a different story then. It's just that this whole thing reminds me of a former therapist I had who constantly believed that He Knew What I Thought And Said Better Than I Did. He kept trying to persuade me that because I was on the autism spectrum, that meant I couldn't see things properly, and I was in need of psychiatric help because I wasn't "reasonable" enough to see things his way.
This quote reminded me very much of that, with the whole "I know what you're really like and what you really believe better than you do" vibe going on.
@Icesperg, NeoMatrix
Can we stop talking about whether trans people are "appealing" or not? I'm trying to explain to Deep Search that I only objected to this quote because the original poster reminded me of an incident where someone tried to use my diagnosis against me to try to brainwash me to think his way; I wasn't intending to provide a reason to call trans people "unappealing", which is not an attitude I support.
EDIT: For that matter, I myself never said I wouldn't date a trans person EITHER. In fact, I would be willing to date a trans person only if I were madly, madly in love with that person. Otherwise, I would prefer a cisgendered person of the opposite sex, as that's who turns me on.
But I never said "I would never date a trans person". In fact, under certain circumstances, I might. What I was objected to was the idea that I was a bad person if I refused to date a trans person. I wasn't opposed to the idea of dating a trans person, just to the guilt-trip and manipulation if I refused.
@Nopants: Please explain how saying that refusing to date a trans person because that person is trans is transphobic is fundie? Particularly given Deep Search's information.
Also, which "aces" qupte? I've submitted a few acephpboc quotes recently.
@Deep Search
Saying subtler forms bigotry exist is one thing. Saying that if someone is unattracted to someone else due to some physical or mental aspect of person two is quite another. Being unattracted to black skin is not racist, being unattracted to women is not misogynist and being unattracted to trans people is not transphobic. Sexual and romantic preferences are nothing more than that. Just because a racist or a tranphobe would be disinclined to date someone of another skin color or a trans person does not mean that those disinclinations, absent words or actions, signal the presence of those prejudices. This "incorrect attractions" crap just sounds like someone repurposed the old incel routine to me. "If you're not attracted to us, you're a hypergamous slut." "If you're not attracted to us, you're a transphobic bigot."
@Demon Duck of Doom
Please clarify your position for me real quick. Either I'm reading that wrong or I read the previous comment wrong. And I was referring to this:
http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=120238
I wanted to confirm it directly but the link returns a pink error page. Something other Tumblr pages now return, as well. Something about an "error on line 2 at column 36: Extra content at the end of the document". Must have made a change to something behind the scenes that my device doesn't like.
@Nopants: I'm saying that somebody who isn't attracted to a trans person whom they would be attracted to otherwise solely because that person is trans is transphobic, and also that this quote has been quote-mined.
Regarding the post you linked to, it's saying that all asexual people are homo- and transphobic, and that they're also straight unless they're homo-, bi- or panrmantic and/or trans.
To: All the people actually arguing if trans people are "appealing":
I personally don't care if a person wants to date me or not because I'm trans. It weeds out the people I'd have problems with anyway, and I don't need drama in my relationships. I'm sure most trans people think the same way.
However, this post seems to have brought out the transphobes on this site, who are going head over heels as to *why* they don't want to date a "trannie" (that's not even how you spell it, lol). It's sad. Cause I feel then that I'm now welcome in non-religious circles, as well as the christian one I was raised in. Cause if people are going to disrespect me here over this, why should I bother?
@RiJayden
I'm sorry to hear that the transphobes on this site have made you feel unwelcome; this is precisely why I tried to ask Icesperg and NeoMatrix to change the subject to the implications of the quote itself, and not talk about trans people as a whole. I wish you the best of luck and much happiness in the future, whatever you decide to do.
Hmm...sorry if this is yet more talking about trans people in general and not the quote, but I think Kid Cthulhu's comic nailed it. Hell, there was some music video I was watching a while ago, can't even remember what the song was now to tell the truth, (now it's gonna bug me...lol) where I only learned after watching it that the girl who featured in it was trans. My thought process went something like this: "Hey, she's cute! Huh, she's transgender? Hm. (watches video again)"
I'll shut up now. lol
@RiJayden: I'm cis, but I agree that it's pretty fucked up that people are talking about if trans folks are appealing or not. I actually submitted Icesperg's comments. NeoMatrix isn't quite being fundie enough, though he is a dick. *holds out hand* I consider you welcome here :)
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