I'll tell you under what conditions [dowsing] works, Galatian -- under the conditions that the person is open to being influenced or controlled demonically. Keeping in mind that another intelligence is at work, why should that intelligence cooperate with Randi?
Steve is telling the truth. There are plenty of professional drillers in these hills who swear by dowsing rods -- men of intelligence, experience, sobriety....and not of God. That is the telling point, and one Randi would never be able to deal with. That is why Steve said that this happened before he became a Christian.
What Randi is skilled at doing is exposing human-caused deceit. He knows nothing about demonically-caused deceit because he is so heavily under its influence.
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I think the conceit is that the Bible wouldn't have interdicted sorcery and necromancy if they didn't actually exist. However, pre-Paul, foreign deities weren't thought of as demons, but just as rival gods (remember that the pre-Zoroastrianism Hebrews were monolatrous--they believed multiple gods existed, but only one, their Yhwh, was worthy of worship). Sorcery and necromancy, I suspect, were forbidden because they could only be coming from followers of rival gods--that is, traitors for a rival power.
Anyway, Helen is saying that people CAN dowse, but only if they're being controlled by demons (godly people have no need of anything supernatural, beyond Holy Spirit influence that they receive just by their fealty to the Christ). I guess she's saying that Randi must be entranced by demons simply because he isn't Jewish or Christian (the OLD conceit that there's no way to be truly neutral).
So the theory is demons tempt people by helping them find water, while God tests them by giving them cancer, having their children raped and killing them with earthquakes. Yeah. That makes sense. [/sarcasm]
Yes!!! Dowsing is caused by evil DEMONS !!! Wretched, vile, satanic demons who use their unspeakable powers to help people find, erm, fresh... drinking... water....
Wait, why would demons want that?
An evil spirit for murder, lust, greed and so on is all very well, but I fail to see the motivation of a being that drives people to seek out sources of water. Unless of course it's... EVIL WATER!!!
To quote James Randi on dowsers:
'The bottom line is that they all fail, when properly and fairly tested. There are no exceptions'.
The thread is ancient, but provides a great deal of insight into the fundamentalist mind.
(1) Dowsing really works.
I've seen dousing work, I don't know how or why, But I've seen it done on a number of occasions. At one time, this was the only way to even attempt to find water on your land.
By good Christian church going men too. So you're saying they're going to hell because they use some strange "god given" talent?
To the people on the board ~ You can be skeptical. The drillers were too, until they hit water. I'm just saying that I've seen it done. And a lot of farmers can't afford to hire geologists to come in and figure out where water might be.
"Keeping in mind that another intelligence is at work, why should that intelligence cooperate with Randi? "
"That is the telling point, and one Randi would never be able to deal with. That is why Steve said that this happened before he became a Christian."
"He knows nothing about demonically-caused deceit because he is so heavily under its influence."
You say you know , ahem, professional drillers who use dowsing rods to find water? Get real!!! This is the 21st century. They use hydrologists who know where a suitable aquifer is. Dowsing is the work of 19th century crooks. Do you also believe oil companies locate fields with oiling rods, instead of petroleum geologists?
Oh the Stupidity of it all, ons charliten condemning another charliten. Im sure thats illegal in most places.
fundamentalists delenda est
antichrist wrote:
"To the people on the board ~ You can be skeptical. The drillers were too, until they hit water. I'm just saying that I've seen it done." This is unsurprising, as if you dig deep enough, you will almost ALWAYS hit water.
Dowsing seems to "work" only because of this. Next time you see somebody hire a dowser to locate water, tell them to dig someplace totally DIFFERENT than where the dowser tells them to. They'll probably hit water anyway.
I suspect that the demons' motivation is that when the "self-invoked" dowsing works, the victim's reliance on God for all things (in this case, letting God supply the water instead of usurping the responsibility) is lessened.
Although I don't get why they want to force God to do everything for them...
"men of intelligence, experience, sobriety....and not of God."
Because all men of God are stupid, ignorant drunks. That's why they believe in dowsing. Me, too! Got my case of Jim Beam right here...
@ tracer & moonkitty84
if you dig deep enough, you will almost ALWAYS hit water.
Next time you see somebody hire a dowser to locate water, tell them to dig someplace totally DIFFERENT than where the dowser tells them to. They'll probably hit water anyway.
Most of this was babble. I skipped to the coherent bit.
The first part I actually understood was "What Randi is skilled at doing is exposing human-caused deceit." This made sense. "He knows nothing about demonically-caused deceit..." -- still making sense, at this point. Then, "...because he is so heavily under its influence."
::facepalm::
What do we expect from Baptist Bored?
Elsewhere in the thread, he states: "I did NOT believe in dowsing when I actually did it. I wasn’t hallucinating or on drugs or having a psychotic episode. I was in the presence of a couple of my relatives who were trying to find water and had already dug 4 dry wells. I thought they were trying to pull my leg when they went about with a stick in their hands. When they handed it to me, I said, “OK, I’ll try it, but this hocus pocus stuff can’t work.” But, it did. It really shook me up at the time."
Oh dear. Now the Fundies are agreeing with us in the Church of Archaeology. Except that we don't trust it because there's no scientific evidence for it, and they don't trust it because of all the demons involved.
I wonder how many demons are needed to make ground penetrating radar work.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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