“Sure wish you can talk to my dad Ray. He's an atheist and so difficult to talk to about God.” Ingrid Urey Bolanos
This is how I would talk to your dad if I had a chance. I would say “I have a question for you. As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?—which is a scientific impossibility.” If he says that he does, I would emphasize that it’s scientifically impossible, and leave him with that. If he doesn’t believe that (which most admit they don’t), I would follow up with “So you believe that something made everything, but it just wasn’t God?”
If he says a predictable “Yes, that’s right,” I would say, “Well you’re not an atheist. You’re an agnostic. You believe in some sort of creative force but you don’t think it was God. Let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be God.” If he would let me speak further, I would take him through the Ten Commandments and we would find out that the issue isn’t intellectual. It’s moral. He’s a liar, a thief, a blasphemer and an adulterer-at-heart who knows that God exists (but as someone once wisely said) He can’t find Him for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman.
56 comments
Finding a policeman is the first response anyone should have to being approached by Ray Comfort.
Followed by a banana as a quick snack, of course.
Thiefs, bananaman, acknowledge that policemen exist. They have proof enough of "the fuzz" and wouldn't deny that they exist.
On the other hand, there is not nearly enough evidence for Gobs.
I have a question for you. As an theist, do you believe that nothing created God?which is a scientific impossibility.
Or what about banannas? Do you admit that they evolved due to artificial selection? in which case you admit evolution exists. Or do you claim that inedible wild banannas don't exist? in which case you are a moron.
Who created God?
Why don't you want it to be Odin?
Sure; calling someone a liar, a thief, a blasphemer and an adulterer-at-heart will definitely make him want to join your side!
As a Christian do you believe that nothing created god which created everything? Because that is a scientific impossibility
Don't answer, I don't care
It's not nothing that created everything.
One thing created everything.
Not believing in God but in a creative force makes you agnostic.
Agnosticism entails a belief in a creative force which isn't God.
Not believing in God means you don't want to believe in God.
God necessarily means the god of the Bible.
There are more leaps here than you'd see at the ballet.
As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?
And I would tell you that that's a stupid, unscientific, straw man argument.
He’s a liar, a thief, a blasphemer and an adulterer-at-heart
I'm sure your fellow fundie is quite happy that you said this about his old man. If you said this about my dad I'd bitch slap you into next Tuesday.
If my kids started preaching to me about me being a thief, liar,and adulterer, they'd feel the back of my hand.
Blashphemy? -fair enough.
And before anyone gets morally outraged, I don't have kids.
You believe in some sort of creative force but you don’t think it was God. Let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be God.
I love how fundies always, ALWAYS jump straight from "some creative force" to "the god of the Palestinian region who flooded the world because of a talking snake and impregnated a virgin with himself so that he could become a carpenter and kill himself to create a loophole for his own rules". Forget about the fact that multiple religions exist with multiple gods, they skip over even demonstrating that this "creative force" is actually a god. For all we know, our universe could be a science fair project of some other universe. A sort of pocket universe within another. How does Ray know it isn't that?
You seem to have some trouble with definitions. Please try to understand "atheist" and "agnostic".
"Let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be God."
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.
Can you please demonstrate that the ten commandments were created by god? Can you provide any evidence that there exists some god that could create commandments? Can you demonstrate that your god is actually moral?
"He can’t find Him for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman."
I think, if you were to ask a number of convicted thieves, that they have no problem finding an abundance of cops. They don't want to find them, but they encounter them anyway. Why is your god less powerful than a police officer?
"As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?"
Yes, yes I do. The universe exists, doesn't it?
I just love how tha Bananaman insists that he, and only he, has the right to define who is an atheist and who is not.
Hey Ray, you know where else a banana fits? Why not take this whole bag of garbage stuff it up with that banana?
No, Ray, I don't believe "nothing created everything". The Big Bang Theory refers to an expansion of space time itself. We don't know what the universe was like before that, but it wasn't "nothing" in the philosophical sense. Of course, even "nothing" isn't really nothing since you have vacuum energy and... oh, who am I kidding? In King Crocoduck's video, Ray was confused by the term "phylogeny", despite having just created a movie "debunking" evolution. The guy hates multisyllabic words.
Ray, have you ever stolen? The Quran says you're going to Hell for that. Yet if a Muslim tried to threaten you with Hell, I don't think you'd blink. Have you ever enjoyed having stuff? Sounds like you'll be reincarnated as a preta, but I don't think you're concerned about that. When you understand why samsara doesn't frighten you, you'll understand why Hell doesn't frighten me.
@Nemo
"The Big Bang Theory refers to an expansion of space time itself. We don't know what the universe was like before that..."
If time is something that fell out of the Big Bang, how can we ever meaningfully discuss what was before time existed?
"I have a question for you. As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?which is a scientific impossibility."
Patently false. Going back far enough, something must ultimately spring from nothing. It's merely that no force we've yet discovered or properly theorized has been capable of effecting it. It's entirely possible that the force capable of this doesn't even exist in this universe at all and simply plopped us out as a self-contained bubble of existence. Remember that for tens of thousands of years it was also scientifically impossible to have a conversation with a person on the other side of the planet in real time. Then radio waves were discovered and, relatively soon after, the internet came along.
"'So you believe that something made everything, but it just wasn’t God?' If he says a predictable 'Yes, that’s right,' I would say, “Well you’re not an atheist. You’re an agnostic."
No he's not. At no point did he assert that it was a sapient something of divine power that led to the creation of matter. Just that it was something.
"I would take him through the Ten Commandments and we would find out that the issue isn’t intellectual. It’s moral. He’s a liar, a thief, a blasphemer and an adulterer-at-heart who knows that God exists"
Sure he is. Granted that he may have never stolen anything or cheated on any of his partners in his life and list any numbers of intellectual arguments that you can't actually combat (strategic retreat is not a form of combat int the realm of ideas) -- doesn't matter. If he doesn't accept the existence and authority of the Heavenly Hitler then he automatically at least wants to do these things. Even if he doesn't know it. Somehow. Because reasons.
Oh, where would we be without the 10 commandments? I'd be hard pressed to figure out which 10 any of these people mean, out of the many rules and taboos in the Big Book of Contradictions, but I must admit it's keeping my immortal soul free from the most major sin, though it's a struggle; if not for the Babble, I'd be out there seething kids in their mother's milk all the time. And possibly even picking up twigs on Saturday, it's just how evil I am in my heart.
Just because there are people who don't share your delusion doesn't make them liars, thieves or adulterers. Now, Ray, prove you're not a sh*thead, or is that a scientific impossibility.
" If he would let me speak further, ..."
He probably wouldn't, he'd just walk away shaking his head sadly.
I think the ultimate problem with theists is they can't get over the hurdle that what someone believes doesn't really matter unless one can justify that belief.
If Ray asked me anything I would respond with asking how's his banana.
As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?which is a scientific impossibility.
Nope... but then that's a problem for you...
“So you believe that something made everything, but it just wasn’t God?”
Nope... but then I don't use logical fallacies...
Well you’re not an atheist. You’re an agnostic.
Well, you're a fucking idiot who's trying to redefine words to win an argument... If you don't believe, you don't fucking believe.
And Ray? Do you *know* there is a god? If so, you do not have faith... and we'll see you in hell. :D
And what did your god create everything from, if not "from nothing"?
And as others mentioned, what created your god?
Ray, you box of stupid, agnostic is an adjective, not a noun. You can't be 'an agnostic'. 'Do you believe' is a yes/no question.
First-cause arguments are useless by themselves for proving the existence of God. If Dad is smart, he'll say "I don't know where everything came from, and neither do you". If you claim everything came from God, he'll ask how you know that. He'll also point out that even if there was a "creator", whatever it was, 15 billion years ago, it needn't still be around, have any other powers, be a physical person or be a single entity. If you start quoting the Ten Commandments, he'll say "why should I believe a 3,500 year old book by some anonymous Arabs? They knew even less than you do about where everything came from."
Probably what pisses us off most about Ray is his pretentious act of being scientific or carrying a logically consistant argument, he never does but throws some of the lingo into his assertions.
No Atheist says nothing created everything we see, Atheists don't believe in your magical God nor a concept of a magical nothingness, this is a creationist strawman that they ultimately fail at worse than Atheism or science.
"Did the universe come from nothing?"
Only creationists in fact claim it did and was created by their God from, yes, nothing.
“Well you’re not an atheist. You’re an agnostic. You believe in some sort of creative force but you don’t think it was God. Let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be God.”
It doesn't even remotely have to be a God. It's just as unlikely, moreso really, that there was somehow spacial area occupied entirely by nothing then to further absurdize it by saying an all-powerful God occupied this nothingness.
As usual, banana-man is wrong.
Something did not come from nothing, it came from something!
Something came from Something.
Before the Big Bang, all the energy in the universe was contained in a singularity, hence it was not nothing but something - energy.
So not only did you fail to produce an actual argument, you insulted a man's father for no reason.
Why has nobody smashed your face in with a bunch of bananas?
@Renon
"Awful lot you just ASSUME about someone you've never met."
'Assume. Where you make an ASS out of U, but not ME'. 'Assumptions are the mother of all fuckups '.
Ray Cumfart has never heard these sayings.
I would say “I have a question for you. As an atheist, do you believe that nothing created everything?
I wish wish Ray would ask me this, just so I could answer "no".
Man, it would be hilarious if you met my dad.
Because he'd probably tear your logic to shreds while quoting your own book at you.
Actually I do believe that everything came from nothing. And no, this isn't a scientific impossibility. Energy and matter are equivalent, (Einstein) as are space and time. Space and time can be considered a former of negative energy (Hawking et.al.) thus the net total energy of the universe can still add up to zero, allowing for the universe to spontaneously come into existence.
This neatly fits in with current theories on the earliest formation of the universe. I'd go into a lot more detail but the maths are horrendous
"He can’t find Him for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman."
Actually, that person's dad can't find God for the same reason I can't find four anthropomorphic alien penguins flying around in outer space in a blue egg-shaped spaceship.
But what if he, after that second question, said "No"? What if he said, "No, I think it happened all by itself"?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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