I believe that a girl should not leave home at 17 or 18. A girl should be under her father's authority and household until she is married. In the wedding ceremony, there is a reason that the father gives the bride away. He is giving her to her future husband.
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Thanks for confirming us that we women are doormats with no autonomy in your particular brand of Christianity. Now, be consequent, nobody is marrying at 17 or 18 AND, most important, with your reasoning we can conclude that the notion of sin in women is ridiculous. Nobody can have free will with a total autonomy to act.
And, if the girl is in a father-less house, whether due to death or divorice? And there's no male "head of house" to give her away? What happens then, Bluegrass?
*Shudders*What happens then, Bluegrass?
LadyBarid; I'm assuming that would mean any avaiable male relative will own her (and Fundies can piss and moan over that wording all they like, the very concept bluegrass is tlking about assumes a woman is, and always will be, a mans property) and then give her away. I think that's how it works. And the divorce bit; don't forget, there's no divorce in Fundyland, anyway. So that one's out.
Because she's an object with no feelings or desires or mind of her own. And she should be treated like property, bought and sold.
You know BG, in the old days, if a girl was still unmarried at 17 or 18, she was pretty much a failure. Her father would most likely treat her as a servant or sell her off to some convent.
Yeah, I plan to leave home - to go to college for four plus years, and get married whenever the time is right, not because I'm a particular age.
Good for you, anti-nonsense and PE ! Me, I'm still living at home. But not forany religious reasons; it's becaue I can't afford to move out yet. I start a new job next week though, and then I'll be able to afford to. And you know what? I'll have my Dad help me pack, just to spite Bluegrass Girl .
I will not be a slave.And it's a girl saying that. Get out of the 1800's, Bluegrass, and go find a more supportive place. Wikipedia should turn up something with a couple months of searching and looking at pages....hell, even an anime forum or Pokemon website will work.
And for the person who mentioned Randy's sockpuppets, it's a strong possibility.....*sigh*....me and my friend Mattina did sockpuppets bettr when we were eleven and messing with crappy free (now long gone) internet forums of our own...
Yeah. Here are some other archaic traditions that have remained in the modern wedding ceremony.
Yes, because the typical sane woman not indoctrinated into consumerism, "feminism", and immorality by five years old would rather (a)[what most of you advocate] loose her virginity at 13 years old, get an STD, get pregnant at 15 years old (boyfriend runs off) and get an abortion, start taking drugs, get married to an abusive husband, get pregnant again, get divorced, hold two jobs, get married again, boss around and mentally castrate her husband (which leads to the husband becoming abusive and unfaithful because his power and masculinity has been stripped from him), have more children who are handicapped from the start, and help destroy society OR (b)get married, obey her husband, let her husband provide for her, have kids, and in the process keep society intact. Gee, isn't that better for men, women, and children than the teachings of "feminism" (masculine women and feminine men aka switching of gender roles)? Hmmmm...image
"FSTDT.com fails": there is only one failure here, and that is you. You fail at life . I was raised in an atheist feminine household (with four sisters and no male parent, by a marvelous, strong, loving hippie mother). I've never had premarital sex, I stayed a virgin until my wedding night, and have never had any stds or abortions. My husband and I welcome children into our relationship and always have. Gee, I seemed to manage this all easily without submitting to any males or giving up my independence! And we both managed it without fundie religious BS.
"[T]here is only one failure here, and that is you. You fail at life ." Nice to meet you too!
I was just stating some of the proven and obvious reasons married men become unfaithful and abusive. How should I know? Maybe they were just jerks? Why do you ask such daft questions?
Maybe the men described above are just jerks? Ever consider that? Or maybe domestic abuse goes on in fundie households because women have been taught to put up with whatever shit their husbands do to them, because they have Godly dominion?
The family unit holds society together and improves society and female submission is an integral part of the family unit.
That's why in the past a lot of the time life was full of death, disease, poor people being exploited and people died at the age of 40 or 50, children died in infancy etc. and since 1900 life has improved rapidly with less death: cures for diseaes, less death during maternity, less infant death, and a much improved queality of life for your average person, a lot less racism, help for domestic violence victims and rape victims, less homophobia and sexism, better technology...yep society is really going downhill.
My apologies in advance for a very long post, but I have much to say to "FSTDT.com fails".without the woman being at all submissive- so why is it supposedly required? What happens when the man is "just a jerk", or emotionally twisted, or simply wrong? I would like to know your opinions on these things.
Anyway... I don't find the questions from my last post "daft" at all. If you are going to claim to know the causes of a societal ill, then you'd better be able to explain yourself when your causes fail to apply. Otherwise you're just speculating and giving opinions as facts.
Speaking of facts- sorry to disappoint you, but strong/independent women are not the cause of abuse. Abuse is a multi-faceted mental problem that usually forms during the abuser's dysfunctional youth. It doesn't suddenly show up one day when he decides to have an adult tantrum. I seriously recommend you seek out a recent, unbiased book or study on spousal abusers. You will find that no one suddenly "becomes" abusive simply because he is displeased. Abusers are constant in their cruelty; they live out their patterns of violence repeatedly and need no "reasons" to hurt their victims. It doesn't matter how submissive or "well-behaved" his wife is, if a man is the type to strike her, he's going to make up his own "reasons" to do it. This is proven fact.
So yes, you are defending it by explaining it away and blaming it on the woman's behaviour. And yes, you are offending decent men by claiming that every man is willing and ready to be an abuser if he can't get his way. A healthy adult is not like a spoiled child who can't use diplomacy and discussion, punching and kicking while blaming everyone else for his own outburst.
Regarding infidelity, please tell us the connection between "man is not in control" and "man must go have hot sex with a woman who is not his wife". Unless you believe that a man should be able to demand sex at any given moment and instantly receive it (an idea that is repulsive to the extreme), the two things are not related. You're just making sexist excuses for male misbehaviour again.
Before I go I have two more questions, so that I may better understand your position:
1) Why are societies where women are oppressed submissives some of the most savage and unhealthy, with the worst human rights violations? If it's how mankind is meant to live, you would think it'd produce some of the healthiest and happiest people. That does not actually pan out, however.
2) how is it possible for a couple to make decisions together (as you say they should) if the woman must constantly submit to her husband's will? That's contradictory. It is simply impossible for one to be submissive yet also have one's opinions considered. If she must always defer, then there is no point in discussion- when her opinion differs from his then she must give in because he automatically "knows better". When her opinion is the same as his, it's what he's going to do anyway. Either way, his desires are always going to win. How awful.
P.S.- you asked how your post offended- well, one needn't use profanity to be offensive! You've done quite well at sickening us just by making baseless and sexist assumptions... and with being a domestic violence sympathizer :) I am critical and use curse words, yes; but you are a violence-excusing chauvinist. I'll keep my cussing, thanks.
How hilarious that you can say such horrid things and then act all offended because I wasn't polite enough to you. Sorry, but I absolutely will not lie to you and pretend that I am glad to meet you... pity if that hurts your feelings. I see no need to speak kindly to someone who considers my gender second-class citizens, no more than I would speak kindly and gently to a racist.
Bluegrass Girl: What was so insulting about my post exactly? I didn't use profanity nor did I insult total strangers.
If you have to be told what's insulting about your post, you'll never understand. You may note that it's been said several times in the past couple of pages. Women. Are. Not. Property.
Human beings are not property.
Slavery is illegal.
Calling it marriage doesn't make it better.
I can see it now, a typical T4C male conversation:
If the kkkristians had their way, we'd all be living with out any human rights at all.
Why doesn't bluegrass girl just follow her own advice and leave the rest of the planet out of it?
fstdt.com fails: uh, female submission does not hold society together--nor has it ever done that. (Where do you think female genital mutilation came from?)
[img]http://www.fstdt.com/funnyimages/uploads/155.jpg[/img]
My husband has specifically said that he married me because I'm not afraid to take control and keep him in check.
That's just like a woman saying she married a man because he's not afraid to take control and keep her in check...
Your kind calls me a ball-busting dyke bitch (I'm not) because I'm a strong, domineering, combative intellectual.
Your kind calls my husband a cocksucking fag (he's not) because he's gentle, thoughtful and creative.
I'm still a real woman, and he's still a real man. If you can't handle people who don't match your stereotypes, tough. We won't live repressive roles just to please you, and I'm fucking insulted that you think we should.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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