Ed Carriere #fundie

Ed Carriere #fundie facebook.com

Can any of you who do not believe in God answer a question for me?

here is a picture. Without looking at the country names, can you find Israel? Once you find Israel, could you explain to me a couple of things. First off, given that every country in the region hates Israel and has vowed to remove Israel... from being a nation, and removing God from the equation as this is for non-believers, how is it still there? On their first day of being pronounced a nation, five surrounding countries waged war and lost big time. How did Israel beat them after being a nation less than a day. How is it that this little country has not been destroyed, and remains the "stumbling block" for the whole world. How can these, and other things be, if God is not in the equation?

104 comments

old comment by TWoozl

Gee, Ed. Might have something to do with Israel being supplied military expertise, heaps of surplus arms from WW2 (Initially; later on from the US and other sources to modernize), and Israel's defensible geography. Though depending on what war you happen to look at (Israel's been through a few), they either "won soundly" or barely hung on by their fingernails by virtue of massive international arms-support. I see no gods involved. Just in some cases quite literally, ex-German Mausers doing the talking alongside heaps of other surplus weaponry.

And yeah, anti-semites/neo Nazis would likely have a conniption about an old "Nazi" gun having its markings ground off, being used by an Israeli, in those early years. Irony. Politics. No gods here, just heaps of weaponry and a people who had the choice of victory, or annihilation. Hell of a motivator.

old comment by Passerby

Gee how is a nation with nuclear arms, powerful political allies, and a fairly large treasury still kicking around while surrounding itself with enemies Americans largely consider a joke due to inferior armaments and lack of military/political unity but are still looking for any excuse to mount military campaigns against? How about the fact their enemies can't get enough of their act together to mount their own nation's army to attack at once let alone make a co-ordinatied effort, especially with the rest of NATO looking for that excuse to make a move should any one step too far out of line. Religion has far less to do with the Mideast's wars than most are led to believe.

old comment by Anon

So being victorious in a war means that "God was on our side", as of this fundie.

So God was on the side of the Vietcong in the Vietnam war?
Or on the side of the Taliban when they defeated Soviet Russia?
And God was on the side of the somalian warlords in "Operation Restore Hope" in 1993, where they forced US troops to retreat from Somalia?
And God very obviously was on the side of the Canadians in the War of 1812, when they decisively defeated the US invasion, who attacked with superior numbers lead by William Hull, and were repelled in what is now called the most humiliating moment in the history of the US army.

Even God himself seems to NOT be on his side from time to time in a war ... I just want to mention the "chariots of iron"...

Or might it be possible that victory in a war depends on completely other factors than an imaginary friend in the clouds?

old comment by WWWWolf

> Without looking at the country names, can you find Israel?

Now we're asked to do elementary school exercises. Wonderful.

> how is it still there?

Here's an elementary school exercise for you in turn: open up an encyclopaedia and look up the terms "politics" and "telecommunication".

Basically, in your mindset, any country can declare war on anyone and invade at any time. Believe it or not, this won't happen these days, because some people might object to that stuff. And they might object to that stuff right away, because you can transmit information about these attacks instantaneously everywhere in the world. And sometimes these objections are voiced in form of missiles coming your way.

In warfare, the attack is the easy part. Just blow shit up. Enjoying the victory is the hard part. People come around asking "why the hell did you blow shit up?", and you need to think up an answer that they might like.

Is this a satisfactory answer?

old comment by Horsefeathers

"ithout looking at the country names, can you find Israel?"

Probably not. Geography has never been my strong suit.

"Once you find Israel, could you explain to me a couple of things. First off, given that every country in the region hates Israel and has vowed to remove Israel... from being a nation, and removing God from the equation as this is for non-believers, how is it still there?"

First of all, not "every country in the region hates Israel and has vowed to remove Israel... from being a nation, and removing God from the equation as this is for non-believers."

Second: Allies.

"On their first day of being pronounced a nation, five surrounding countries waged war and lost big time. How did Israel beat them after being a nation less than a day."

See the second point above. Provisions of modern military equipment from some of the most technologically advanced nations on the planet combined with direct training from those same allies for Israel's military in modern military tactics will beat a bunch of people using Cold War era weaponry who got their military instruction from someone who heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else who heard it from the original trainer 40+ years ago.

"How is it that this little country has not been destroyed, and remains the "stumbling block" for the whole world."

I wouldn't call it a "stumbling block." A pain in the ass, perhaps, since they appear to expect everyone but themselves to help them.

"How can these, and other things be, if God is not in the equation?"

Easily. Your god doesn't appear to exist.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"here is a picture. Without looking at the country names, can you find Israel?"

Easy:

image

At least I did Geography at school. Now point out, say, North Korea on a world map, Ed. Next question.

Because Israel has backup from the USA:

image

Would you want to contemplate the notion of even thinking of fucking with the above? PROTIP: Once Saddam Insane was found in his hole in the ground, Libya's Colonel Gaddaffi soon rolled over and showed his throat in submission real sharpish.

"On their first day of being pronounced a nation, five surrounding countries waged war and lost big time. How did Israel beat them after being a nation less than a day. How is it that this little country has not been destroyed, and remains the "stumbling block" for the whole world. How can these, and other things be, if God is not in the equation?"

Because Israel has aforementioned backup by the US. Also superior firepower themselves:

image

(That's a Merkava tank. As in Israeli-made, for the hard of thinking such as you, Ed.)

That, and the rumoured nukes that Israel is thought to possess. Three letters: M.A.D. As in you'd be fucking insane to try and fuck with a nuclear-capable Israel. When you don't have any yourself.

Now explain to me one thing: Did your 'God' make any of the weapons Israel possesses? If he didn't, Then why should a 'God' be part of the equation - or have any relevance whatsoever today?

Two Words: Iron Chariots. Remember Judges 1:19? And there's a lot of iron in the steel used in the construction of Merkava & M1 Abrams tanks.

Next question.

@Doubting Thomas

(emphasis added):

"The fact that they have excellent military tactics, training, and equipment"

Not for nothing was the martial art Krav Maga invented in Slovakia/Israel (originally by a Slovak Jew). Unless you're expert in Jeet Kune Do or Ninpo/Ninjutsu, you do not want to fuck with anyone proficient in that.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@#1254821

"Just cause the nation is only a day old doesn’t mean the people running it don’t have their shit together."

@Threlethar

(emphasis added):

"Israel won because they had better weapons. They had better weapons because they were white, and as such, on good terms with white, developed countries such as the US and, at the time, British Empire. In a battle between jezzails and fighter jets, I see no reason Israel should have lost"

Which is why, post-1948 independence, not for nothing did Israel choose for it's fledgling air force, the British Supermarine Spitfire:

image

When most other Middle East countries at that time didn't even have planes.

And today? Israel has expressed an interest in the US's F-22 Raptor for their Air Force. Even our modern-day Spitfire, the Eurofighter Typhoon.

@DarkfireTaimatsu

"Little country? Please tell me your theories about Luxembourg, then."

Or even Liechtenstein. A country that has far more companies than people (it's a tax haven, natch). Where said entire population could fit in a decent-sized football stadium. Yet, on a per-capita basis, is richer than the US.

Geography education, Ed. Get one.

old comment by G.Fieendish

Let's see...
Does the rumoured 240 Nuclear weapons in the Israeli armoury, with delivery systems, including the Jericho 3 Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile, with a estimated range of 3000Km, not to mention the provision of state of the art weapons provided to the IDF, by the U.S have anything to do with it, methinks...?
And as for the U.N, surely if it was not for the permanent veto by the U.S, of any U.N resolution criticising Israel & it's policies, I suspect that it would be in the same position politically, as South Africa, during the mid 1980's internationally...
BTW, just wait until 2025, when reportedly Israelis of Arab descent will become the most populous ethnic group in Israel. Given recent demands by extremist Zionist parties, to make said Israeli born Arabs, declare a loyality oath to the "Jewish state of Israel", this will cause a lot of problems for Israelis...
Note: Israel styles itself as a secular democracy...

old comment by John Marley

Of course the surrounding countries declared war. If the UN carved out a part of the east coast of the US and declared it to be a sovereign nation belonging to a group of Muslims (or anyone else for that matter), how do you think the US would react?

"[That] little country" was constructed by the WW2 allied nations, and given troops, weapons and training.

I don't have any idea what "remains the "stumbling block" for the whole world" means, but it hasn't been destroyed for the reason given above and the resulting culture of militarism.

Israel exists because it was created and maintained (until able to maintain itself) by the UN. Your god had nothing to do with it.

old comment by Professor M

Well, much of it has to do with U.S. support. Of course, that support is only partially for reasons of realpolitik; the fundies also support the militant right wing of Israel for two reasons. First, because they like to pretend that Christianity and Judaism are a united front against Islam in the crusade/jihad/holy-war fantasies that the right-wingers keep jerking off to. Second, since the late 19th century American right-wing fundamentalist Protestants have decided that as soon as they convince and/or force all Jews to move to Israel, their god will exterminate all Jews -- which is something that the "pro-Israel" right-wing fundamentalist Protestants hope for quite fervently.

Of course, none of this even hinges on how most of the countries surrounding Israel really don't feel any need to invade, as they're mostly motivated by their own needs rather than a desire to live up to the stereotypes collaboratively developed by right-wing Protestants and right-wing Muslim totalitarians...

old comment by

They all have the same god, which might account for the seemingly perpetual deadlock in the region. God just can't choose which side to back.

G.Fieendish
"if it was not for the permanent veto by the U.S, of any U.N resolution criticising Israel & it's policies, I suspect that it would be in the same position politically, as South Africa, during the mid 1980's internationally..."

To some extent it is in the same position; in a much smaller way, sadly.
Many people are tired of the Israeli's megalomania and their occupation of Palestinian areas.
But, as soon as enough countries have come together to put pressure on them, the US steps in with its veto, and the Israelis are once again free to continue shooting 5-year-olds who throw rocks at tanks.

Ed Carriere #fundie facebook.com

104 comments

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