Arley Doubleday #fundie

Arley Doubleday #fundie facebook.com

[A response post on the Facebook fan page for "Revocation of tax-exempt status from churches engaging in political action."]

You could argue ALL churches engage in political action. Who would make that decision? People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun.
Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok? What about taxes on the Socialist government health option?

THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS. Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker.

91 comments

old comment by Swede

You mean "principles", don't you?

Atheists are too few to force through any laws or decisions. Oh, maybe not, they might be more prone to actually vote, and make a difference. You can't whine about desicions you chose to not take part in. Or rather, you can whine, but it sounds a bit hollow; "you do wrong, but I can't be bothered to actually do something about it".
(Btw, why don't you have your voting day on the weekend, like most countries here in Europe? And why do you first have to register to vote. Being an adult citizen ought to be enough.)

When churches meddle in things that happen outside their churches, then they "engage in political actions". Easy-peasy.

old comment by SleepNeed

You could argue ALL churches engage in political action.

You sure could. Some churches tell their followers to vote for a certain person or they will be excommunicated.

Who would make that decision?

The paster/preist/deacon/etc telling their people to vote a certain way or they go to hell.

People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun.

Dude, atheism means that there is religion. Also I want my country to have (as Jefferson put it) a wall of separation between church and state. That means the church doesn't get involved in the affairs of government and vice versa.

Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok?

I believe as of right now, the fed funds are only used in cases of rape, incest or when a woman's life is in danger. Not if she willy nilly wants an abortion but I'll admit I'm wrong if shown otherwise.

What about taxes on the Socialist government health option?

Taxes pay for more than that you know right? They keep the roads (somewhat) maintained, keep the police and fire department there so that they don't have to get a check before they arrest the robber or putout your house fire.

HE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS.

No dude, it wasn't. You know Jefferson right, I quoted him earlier. I'm willing to bet he'd challenge you to a duel if you told him that. He also said and I quote "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." as well as " In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." So the man who was our third president and one of the bigger founding fathers was not a real strong Christian.

As far as Washington, he was a deist according to a lot of sources.

So two big founding fathers are seemingly not real big on the whole idea of this being a Christian nation.

Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker.

You don't even know what a fallacy is, do you?

old comment by mad the swine

You all do realize, I hope, that the Treaty of Tripoli is neither American law nor a founding document, and that the English wording of the treaty reflected Jefferson's personal prejudices, while the Arabic text says nothing about the Christian nature, or lack thereof, of the United States.

Separation of church and state is a longstanding American tradition with a great deal of legal precedent. But citing Tripoli to back it up is like citing the Treaty of Versailles to argue that the government of Germany was solely responsible for WWI.

(Also: of course all churches engage in political action - we're a democracy! The moral beliefs of individuals are what drive our politics! Any church with a doctrine that takes any sort of stand on any issue that has ever come up for a public vote is engaging in politics. If your church teaches that abortion is wrong, that's political. If your church teaches that abortion is a personal choice - that's also political. The only churches that can possibly be considered apolitical are those that take no stand on any issue whatsoever, like the militant agnostic movements out of Seattle.)

old comment by Horsefeathers

"You could argue ALL churches engage in political action."

Then they should all lose their tax exemptions.

"Who would make that decision?"

The IRS, more than likely.

"People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun."

Atheism is not a religion and, in this country at least, it is overwhelmingly the Christians who want to "ruin everyone else's fun."

"Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok?"

Abortion is a legal, medically relevant procedure carried out by a tax paying professional in the course of their employment. There is no reason the federal government should not fund such a procedure except for some misguided attempt to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their own body.

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS."

The only "Christian principle" I can think of that was used to found this country in any way was slavery.

"Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker."

That Jefferson sure was a prankster, wasn't he? I'm glad you've opened my eyes.

old comment by threshold

The quote is fundie and I disagree with the moronic sentiment expressed, yet I also don't agree with the political-tax ideas expressed below. Pragmatically, the people who actually listen to their church about how to vote are not going to vote democrat and approve gay marriage no matter what you do. The current system works fine and shows that rational people aren't petty. I'd rather not lose that.

Side note: the Treaty of Tripoli expresses the Jefferson Administration's views, and is not constitutional law. If every treaty counted, 200 million Americans would need to move off of land we agreed to let the natives keep.

Rational, pragmatic arguments are the way to brush aside fundie crap. Lines like "treaty of tripoli, bitch!" make you look like an ignorant asshole who but for the grace of the FSM could be arguing for the other side.

old comment by emau99

[You could argue ALL churches engage in political action. Who would make that decision?]

You sure could.

[People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun.]

Alternatively, we don't want to forfeit our Constitution and live in a theocracy.

[Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok? What about taxes on the Socialist government health option?]

Abortions are legal, you know.

[THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS.]

Name one Christian principle the US was founded on. Name one. Just one.

Then, perhaps you could explain why the Constitution makes no mention of God or Christ?

When you're done with that, maybe you could explain the Treaty of Tripoli?

Christmas wasn't adopted as a federal holiday until 1870. How is it that the founding fathers created a Christian nation, yet overlooked Christ's birthday?

[Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker.]

The only fallacy here is your talk of a Christian US.

old comment by Headache

mad the swine said:

BULLSHIT!

Please present the relevant sections from the treaty, both in English and in Arabic and then point out which of the sections in the Arabic version are different and what they exactly says in Arabic along with your best translation.

You DO speak Arabic, don't you? You are not just spewing nonsense you got from your local bullshit artist or preacher, are you?

Without evidence - you *DO* know what evidence is?
Without evidence, your claim is just another baseless unsupported BS claim without foothold in reality.

old comment by Sylvana

"You could argue ALL churches engage in political action. Who would make that decision?"

Any church that directs funds towards a political goal, engages in political action. An audit from the IRS should be able to decide quite eaisily.

"People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun."

I dont know about fun, but if as you claim athiesm is a religion, why do they pay taxes and other religious organisations dont? If you insist I wont complain about a tax exempt status for athiests.

"Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok? What about taxes on the Socialist government health option?"

Abortions being a legal medical procedure and available in a country with subsidized health care, would be funded by the goverment, much like cancer surgery and any number of other medical treatments. The "Socilist govenment health option" is a system provided by taxes. You cannot tax such a system as it it funded by the government through taxes, further it is not an organisation that earns income capable of being taxed.

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS. Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker."

So? Regardless of if america was founded on principles of drinking blood the current constitution has a seperation of church and state amendment. Hence, under current legal system imposed by that constitution churches are legally bound not to intefere with government and government is legally bound not to intefere with religion.

old comment by breakerslion

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS"

CAPS LOCK DOES NOT MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ANY LESS STUPID!

Now that I've got that out of my system, let's examine this premise.

1. The USA was founded by an elite group that recognized a power vacuum, and recognized that they could cut the existing ruling class off and cut themselves in, kind of like the Reformation.

2. It was established as a republic within a democracy to maintain a power hierarchy wherein the rich, landed, presumably educated ruling class would lead everyone else like sheep through the use of rhetoric, jingoism, and propaganda, kind of like a minister with his flock.

3. Most hierarchical governments have allowed the more powerful religious leaders to insinuate themselves in government affairs, with a few notable exceptions. This is because religious fervor and belief in an afterlife helps governments muster cannon fodder.

4. Christianity was founded by Constantine as a political tool, and is used as such to this day. The beliefs and persecution paranoia espoused have been used to fuel prejudice, violence, and hatred for other races and groups with competing beliefs. All manner of interpretation of holy writ has been employed to rationalize this unethical behavior. This polarizing and rationalizing behavior is useful for those with a morally questionable political agenda, no matter what side of an issue they happen to be on.

Are these the Christian "principals" to which you refer? You might have a point after all.

old comment by Doubting Thomas

"You could argue ALL churches engage in political action."

They do tend to, and should lose their tax-exempt status for it. The Mormons funding Prop. 8 comes to mind.

"People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun. "

First of all, atheism isn't a religion. Secondly, it's the Christians in this country who want to tell everyone else how to live.

"Yeah, but federal funding of abortions is ok?"

It's not happening now and not likely to in the future.

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS."

Bullshit. Saying it in all caps doesn't make it any more true, either.

"Separation of Church and State is a fallacy you fell for, hook, line, and sinker."

Read the First Amendment. Specifically the very first line about no establishment of religion.

old comment by Sasha

Arley's convinced me that Church and State should not be separate. Let's make it official.

The federal government should take over all the churches and declare that Federalism is our new religion. The government will appoint ministers for each Federal church and assign each citizen a church with mandatory attendance enforced by law. All church property of any kind will become government property, which will go some way to paying off the deficit. All religious texts will be replaced with the Federalist Papers. All religious icons will be replaced with images of the bald eagle. All religious programs will be replaced with live coverage of Congress.

Whaddaya say?

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"You could argue ALL churches engage in political action."

In that case, politicians (and therefore we, the electorate) have the right to take over religion and remake it according to our whims & fancies. How about we make it illegal to believe in a 'God' for starters? And all preachers to be sacked and replaced with the likes of Richard Dawkins? And the Bible to be replaced with "On the Origin of Species", "A Brief History of Time" and "The God Delusion"?

And you fundies have no right to complain, criticise or protest against this policy in any way, shape or form, with arrest & jailing without trial for anyone who does so.

'Separation of Church and State' sounding less & less a fallacy, hmmmm?

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS"

His4Life said the same, and her claims were utterly destroyed by we in FSTDT. You must be a masochist, Arley. Care to try us on? Our verbal blades need whetting again...

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"People who practice (and push) the religion of Atheism just want to ruin everyone else's fun"

You lot claim Atheism is a 'religion' too. So where's our tax exemption status? You lot wlling to pay said rebates - backdated & with interest? No? Well then. STFU, and take that secular law (Romans 13:1-5) pain, bitches.

You lot also claim that 'Christianity isn't a 'religion', but a 'personal relationship with Jesus'. Okay then. In that case, you & your ilk no longer have any legal protection whatsoever. And you & your 'churches' (that no longer are) must fork out untold trillions in back-taxes - with interest - to the IRS. 'THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS', eh?

'A sucker is born every minute'

-PT Barnum

And you are the suckers. Of the phallus-y of your pastors' God-schlongs. [/Bill Hicks] >:D Oh, and as for 'THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS'...:

image

Pic extremely related. X3

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"THE U.S.A. WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS."

Therefore, as the US started from 1776, fundie Christianity in that country owes the IRS - and not taking into account interest accrued & added to such during that exemption period - nearly $17 quadrillion. [/Kuyohashi]

Or you fundies could simply drop the whole BS of the way you lot think, STFU about anything in perpetuity, and simply admit that the Federal government owns God.

What's to stop them from spending a few hundred thousand dollars to have an engineering works make a needle scaled up so as a camel could walk through the eye of such easily: then - by your own 'beliefs' logic - they would own God. They more than own your religion, going by the debt you owe the IRS; 'You lot bang on & on about how yours 'isn't a religion, but is a personal relationship with Jesus', do you not...?!

Arley Doubleday #fundie facebook.com

91 comments

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