www.patheos.com

Dave Armstrong #fundie patheos.com

A common tactic of biblical skeptics is to question the veracity and historical trustworthiness of the New Testament based on alleged numerous “contradictions” therein. But most of these so-called “problem passages” can easily be shown to be not contradictory, but rather, complementary. This is what might be described as the “1001 Bible contradictions” ploy.

In the desperation to find contradictions, any instance of a different report (not absolutely identical in all respects) is regarded as contradictory, when in fact this is not so at all, and obviously so, for anyone who will take a little time to reflect upon it. A simple example will suffice to illustrate this:

1. Joe says he saw Bill walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 3:10 PM on a hot Saturday afternoon.
2. Alice says she saw Ed walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 4:10 PM.

3. John says he saw Kathy walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at 4:30 PM.
4. Sally says she saw Bill walk up to the Dairy Queen and buy an ice cream at about 3:15 PM, Ed buy an ice cream there at about 4:20 PM, and Kathy buy an ice cream there at about 4:45 PM.

Now, according to these conflicting and contradictory reports, how many people (at least) bought an ice cream at the Dairy Queen between 3:10 and about 4:45 PM on a hot Saturday afternoon? Was it 1, 2, 3, or 6?

Actually, none of the above, because (in all likelihood) many more people went there during that time to buy ice cream. They just weren’t all recorded.
But skeptical hyper-critics look at the above data (lets say they represent the four Gospels) and see a host of contradictions:

1. Joe contradicts Alice as to who visited there in an hour’s time.

2. Joe contradicts John as to who visited there in an hour and 20 minutes time.

3. Alice contradicts John as to who visited there in 20 minute’s time.

4. Joe says someone visited at 3:10, but Alice claims it was at 4:10, and John says it was at 4:30.

5. Joe, Alice, and John can’t even agree on who visited the Dairy Queen in a lousy span of only 80 minutes! They are obviously completely untrustworthy! Probably two or more of them are lying.

6. To top it all off, we have the utter nonsense of Sally, whose time for Bill’s arrival contradicts Joe’s report by 5 minutes!

7. Sally’s time for Ed’s arrival contradicts Alice’s report by 10 minutes!!

8. Sally’s time for Kathy’s arrival contradicts John’s report by 15 minutes!!!

And so on and so forth. Yet this is the sort of incoherent reasoning which we get from so many skeptics of the Bible, who pride themselves on their reasoning abilities and logical acumen, over against the alleged gullible, irrational orthodox Christians, who accept biblical inspiration. Many examples of this sort of nonsense can be easily located in the usual laundry lists of biblical contradictions which frequently appear in skeptical and atheist literature, often exhibiting the most elementary errors of fact or logic.

Fair-minded and open-minded folks should be able to easily see through the shallowness of such proofs. The skeptical underlying assumptions are almost always assumed as axioms (reasons for this acceptance are deemed unnecessary), and the Christian assumptions are almost always frowned upon as irrational, impossible, etc.

We often hear, for example, the weak argument that John’s Gospel excludes a lot of the important events in Jesus life, which are recorded in the synoptic Gospels. But it obviously had a different purpose (it was more theological in nature, rather than purely narrative). In the world of biblical hyper-criticism, however, facts such as those are of no consequence. The usual predisposition is that contradictions are involved, per the above reasoning.

I’ve compiled many resources for Christians who encounter this sort of thing: Alleged Bible “Contradictions” & “Difficulties”: Master List of Christian Internet Resources for Apologists (Links).
I just had an encounter yesterday with a man who listed off four alleged contradictions in the Bible. I spent a significant amount of time offering counter-explanations in a combox on my blog, showing (I think) that contradictions were actually not present, complete with links to the material that answers the charges. I wrote at the beginning and the end:

"Since you are unwilling to look these up in my sources (which is why I provided them), I’ll do your work for you. It was not difficult to find possible and plausible solutions in a few seconds searching on Google . . .

Now, I just spent a bunch of my time doing work that you could have done just as easily. Next time, do it yourself. But something tells me you won’t, because if you were willing, you would have done it this time, rather than challenging me with it. As it is, you provide a classic example of the logical inadequacies and unfair attitude of the biblical skeptic, that I can now pass on to my readers, as an illustration of what I’ve been saying for years: atheists and other Bible skeptics approach the Bible like a butcher approaches a hog.

And so how did this man respond when I did all that for him? He deleted all his comments and split . . ."

Exactly my point: he doesn’t give a rat’s rear end about actually solving these alleged Bible difficulties, or giving the Bible a fair shake. He only wants to tear it down. He has no interest in defenses of an infallible, inspired Bible. Therefore, if a Christian seriously interacts with his criticisms, he wants no part of it, because that doesn’t advance his agenda, and he disappears. He’s not interested in either serious Bible study or serious discussion. If I’ve seen it once, I’ve seen it a hundred times.

Pastor Steven Anderson #fundie patheos.com

If you want to go home and have your wife boss you around and lord over you, I’ll tolerate you doing that. But that’s not the way it’s going to be in my house, because I’m actually a real man who actually is in charge in my home, and I’m not an effeminate man who lets my wife boss me around and tell me what to do, like most men are becoming today, unfortunately.

[...]

Well, the Bible actually teaches that gays should be executed— now, I’m not saying that I would ever kill anyone, because I never would, but I believe that the government should use the death penalty on murderers, rapists, homosexuals, and— that’s what the Bible teaches very clearly.

[...]

Nothing in the Bible has been proven not to be true. And I’ve been alive for 31 years and everything I’ve ever seen just proves that the Bible is true.

Logan Robertson #fundie patheos.com

Pastor Logan Robertson, an independent Baptist preacher from Auckland, New Zealand, said in a recent sermon that he would be glad to support two gay people getting married— as long as they were shot at the altar.

The short clip of the Westcity Bible Baptist Church sermon was posted online in late July but got more attention after the New Zealand Herald covered it today.

Someone just emailed me the other day about our church. I [believe] he lives in Auckland. He’s like, “What’s your view on homo marriage?”

I was like, “My view on homo marriage is that the Bible never mentions it, so I’m not against them getting married as long as a bullet goes through their head the moment they kiss.”

Because that’s what it talks about. Not homo marriage, but homo death. There’s no such thing as homo marriage—.

That’s what should happen. Now we’ve got Christians that would rather side with them — side with their cute little fag cousin or brother or whoever it is — than with Christians, than actually preach against it.

The love of Christ + a hatred of LGBT people = This sermon.

To be sure, many Christians have already condemned his hateful rhetoric. But make no mistake Robertson feels fully justified in saying this sort of thing because he thinks it’s inspired by the Bible.

When contacted by the Herald tonight, Robertson said he did not deny his words were hate speech.

“Of course it is. Does it sound like hate speech to you?” he said. “If the world thinks that’s hate speech then that’s fine.”
When radical Muslims do it, it’s terrorism. But when he does it, it’s religious freedom—
Just like Pastor Steven Anderson and Theodore Shoebat, Robertson reiterated that he wasn’t calling on anyone to kill gay people — that should be the government’s job in his mind — but he also wasn’t about to take responsibility if anyone acts his message.

“It’s got nothing to do with me — they could read that verse in the Bible.

“I’m not inciting vigilantes — I believe it’s the Government’s job.”

This isn’t Robertson’s first time in the news. In 2014, he told a gay Christian author, “I pray that you will commit suicide.” When a reporter (who also happened to be gay) asked him for clarification, Robertson said once again that the man should kill himself.

It’s not often you see a video when the hateful commenters seem tamer than the person in front of the camera, but leave it to a Baptist pastor to make that happen.

Galen Dalrymple #fundie patheos.com

Americans see rational, scientific reasons for everything. Sadly, this extends into our spiritual lives as well. When I first got here and started to learn about the culture, I was somewhat shocked to find so much talk about witchcraft, spells and curses, demons and spiritual warfare. My American-educated mind immediately thought, “What kind of Christians are these who believe in such things?” But, as time passed, I began to see that they take Ephesians 6:12 deadly serious: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

As I began to think more deeply about this, I confess that what we explain away in America as some physical, mental, chemical or other failure may in fact be the result of spiritual warfare indirectly or directly. For example, we think of certain birth defects as being the result of genetic mutations or failures. But the deeper question may be: what causes the genetic malfunction? Is it truly random, or is it an unseen spiritual warfare played out at an atomic level in the body? And what of the “unexplained” incidents of birth defects – what is the cause of those? Are they just due simply to the fall? Why should a particular gene sequence go haywire and others not?

As a result, I have been forced to ask myself who is deluded and who is seeing things clearly? Is it possible that we have failed in America to believe enough in unseen powers that struggle against our souls and have adopted a secularized, scientific and sanitized faith when it comes to spiritual warfare? After all, Jesus clearly believed in demons and they certainly believed in him! Jesus was no fool. If anyone has insight into the spiritual realities, it was He. While I think a balanced approach and view is called for in this matter, perhaps it is much to our detriment as Americans that we have made mincemeat of the concept of spiritual warfare and its effect on the events of our daily lives.

Ray Myers #racist patheos.com

Another openly racist Republican: Ray Myers, a member of the powerful Texas GOP platform committee, says he’s proud to be a white nationalist.

Myers, a prominent Texas Republican and former delegate for Senator Ted Cruz’s presidential run, publicly announced that he was an out and proud white nationalist via social media last week, declaring:

Damn right, I’m a WHITE NATIONALIST and very proud of it.

And while Myers is proud to be a white nationalist, he doesn’t want you to think he is a racist. Myers told the Texas Observer:

I am Anglo and I’m very proud of it, just like black people and brown people are proud of their race. I am a patriot. I am very proud of my country. And white nationalist, all that means is America first. That’s exactly what that means. That’s where the president’s at. That’s where I’m at and that’s where every solid patriotic American is. It doesn’t have anything to do with race or anything else.

Bristol Palin #fundie patheos.com

TOLERANCE IN ACTION: Hit Kim Davis with Marriage Applications in New Android Game

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Can you believe this!!!!!!!!?

Condemn Kim, a new android game from Endless Spiral, LLC, lets users throw marriage licenses at an animated Davis as she runs back and forth behind her clerk’s counter. Each time you hit her with a license, she turns red and cringes. Hit her with enough licenses and she goes to jail (So realistic!). If you earn enough credits, you can purchase other things to throw at Davis: A shoe, a tomato, the rainbow LGBTQ flag. You can also throw a divorce her way, which is a not-so-veiled reference to her own series of divorces.

The same people who shout “EQUALITY FOR ALL” will mock a Christian woman for not agreeing with them.

This is such hypocrisy. Shame on anyone involved in making this game and the LBGT community for accepting a part of this game.

Makes me sick.

Let everyone have their OWN BELIEFS – whether you agree or not.

Antiphon411 #fundie patheos.com

Your comment illustrates my argument nicely. The error of religious liberty is incompatible with Christian Faith. It is a Liberal idea and ultimately atheistic because it fosters religious indifferentism. I am not here to convert you, but rather to point out to my Christian friends that they should see religious liberty for what it is.

Incidentally, you should know by looking at the world around you that the removal of religious things from the public forum is an infringement on the religious rights of religious people. Most religions I know of are total world-views. (A possible exception would be Protestantism, which has always seemed a little half-assed to me.) Just as the Mahometan wants his state run according to sharia law, so too the Christian should want his whole society permeated with the Faith: God should be a beginning and end to all things.

Religious liberty is not a grown-up idea. To suggest that anyone, apart from milquetoast western Christians would allow themselves to be limited by the notion of religious liberty is absurd. There are really only two appropriate responses to a given religion: embrace it or suppress it.

But let us be honest, the latter is precisely what your ilk is aiming at with its commitment to religious liberty! If we cannot be friends, let us at least be honest enemies. I shall not lie to you and you will not--I hope--lie to me.

Wellington Boone #fundie patheos.com

“Let me say something that will absolutely blow the gay community’s mind right now,” he said. “You really have been misnamed. Just like ‘African-American’ is a misnomer — that’s not a correct name — it’s black American. So is ‘gay’ or ‘homosexual.’ What you are, are eunuchs. You are a eunuch culture. And in the Bible you let the devil trick you, though, by making you think your issue is sex with the same gender, who is actually having a union with God. And there are many, many places in the Bible where you can see you’re a eunuch. — Look up eunuch in the whole of the Bible; you’ll see that you sold yourself for human pleasure when you were made to please God. You are eunuchs. And Jesus even spoke to that point, he says, ‘There are you who are born that way, there are eunuchs who made themselves that way, and then there are eunuchs who were made to be eunuchs by someone else.’”

Dan Carollo #fundie patheos.com

Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon practiced polygamy because that was part of the ancient, near-east culture they came out of. God chose a people, with their in-grained culture -- warts and all -- but that doesn't mean God actually endorsed it. In fact, every place this polygamy occurs, there are always consequential problems with it.

theot58 #fundie patheos.com

James, I really choked on your statement: "First, biological evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of the observable world."
Mate what are you smoking? Read any biology text book on evolution or Darwins book and they all assert that from a common ancestor ALL the living forms emerged.

Consider an extract from Berkely website: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/...

The central idea of biological evolution
is that ALL life on Earth shares a common ancestor,
just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother.

Through the process of descent with modification,
the common ancestor of life on Earth gave rise to the fantastic diversity that we see documented in the fossil record and around us today.

Evolution means that we're all distant cousins:
humans and oak trees, hummingbirds and whales.

Mo #fundie patheos.com

Benson: Have fun going down in the wrong side of history and have the people
of tomorrow mocking you, just as we do now with the people who opposed interracial marriage. Also, could you people stop pretending that private "pretend" ceremonies equal equality? There have been several absolutely
heartbreaking stories of same-sex couples in which a partner was forbidden from standing at their beloved's deathbed because they were
not married -- the tip of the iceberg. Willfully short-sighted creatures, you folk.

Mo: "Have fun going down in the wrong side of history and have the people of tomorrow mocking you, just as we do now with the people who opposed interracial marriage." Can you tell me what equality there is between skin color/race and deviant sexual acts? How dare you compare my race or anyone else to deviant sexual behaviors.

Stacey Dash #fundie patheos.com

Planned Parenthood traded pizza for dead babies. Still think they care about women’s health?

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Don’t let anyone tell you ever again that Planned Parenthood has anything to do with “parenthood.” Nor let them tell you that their clinics are all about women’s health. They’re not! They are in one business and one business only: abortions.

Former employees are speaking out against Planned Parenthood and revealing some of the sick and twisted things that go on behind the scenes — if selling fetal body parts wasn’t enough already — which includes selling abortions to get rewarded with pizza parties.

That’s what the pro-life activist group Live Action discovered when interviewing former employees. One of them, Sue Thayer who managed a clinic in Storm Lake, Iowa, said that her office had a monthly goal for abortions. Her specific clinic didn’t perform abortions but they would make referrals. Those were counted in the monthly quota and listed on a color-coded grid to keep employees motivated.

“We were really very goal-oriented,” Thayer said. “We would say things like, your pregnancy test, your visit today is X number of dollars, how much are you going to be able to pay towards that?”

You may want to stop eating right now to stomach what her office would tell these “patients” next:

If they’d say, “I’m not able to pay today,” then we would say something like, “Well, if you can’t pay $10 today, how are you going to take care of a baby? Have you priced diapers? Do you know how much it costs to buy a car seat? Where would you go for help? There’s no place in Storm Lake — or whatever town they were in — you know, where you can get help as a pregnant mom. So really, don’t you think your smartest choice is termination? We can take care of that and set it up for you.”

Disgusting.

Besides pizza parties, there were other rewards for salesmen: more time off and lunches with upper management.

Thayer added, “It sounds kind of crazy, but pizza is a motivator.”

Yeah, it sounds real crazy.

Live Action president Lila Rose points out something else that sounds crazy but is the reality: “Planned Parenthood doesn’t have quotas for adoptions. It doesn’t have quotas for prenatal care. But quotas for abortions? Absolutely.”

Can we finally put to rest the idea that Planned Parenthood cares about anything other than aborting babies?

Planned Parenthood’s Abortion Quotas

H/T The Blaze

al #fundie patheos.com

[Fundy is asked if the death penalty for gays described in Leviticus is good]

Yes. Why do you think they had such a penalty? A free thinker should be able to tell me why.

Anne Kennedy #fundie patheos.com

Here’s a thousand things that are wrong with not referring to God as a He.

1. It’s essentially disrespectful to the text, where God refers to himself exclusively as a He.

2. It makes men the enemy. You’ve already made God your enemy, by not referring to him by the pronoun he chooses for himself. It’s obvious, then, what you think of men. Should men, then, give up their male pronouns? I know you think so, but you’re devaluing and making an enemy out of the Other.

3. You’re ruining the English language, as indeed does anyone who insists on being referred to as “they” or “xe”. English deals in gendered pronouns. Other languages have an easy use of neuter pronouns, but we don’t. Of course, if you’re translating the Bible into those languages, and you can chose a male pronoun, you probably should, since that’s largely how God refers to Himself in the Hebrew and Greek.

4. If you feel like you’re cut out of the picture, as a female, because God is male, you have a dismal picture of yourself and God. Maybe this is the church’s fault for a thousand years, but I really doubt it. I think feminism has managed to make women feel cut out of the picture, when they haven’t been. Unless you take up the Whole picture, say some feminists, its like you’re not even in the picture. Which is foolish and selfish and wrong. The picture is actually of God, and you don’t get to be in the picture, much, except maybe as a tiny roughed out sketch in the bottom corner. And here’s the thing about God–which you would discover if you read the Bible–he is big enough to Know You As You Are. He isn’t limited by gender in the way that men and women are. You can’t understand the man, because the man is unlike you. You can’t understand God, because God is unlike you. You can’t understand yourself because you’re crazy. But God is not bound by these limitations. He doesn’t understand you, as a woman, imperfectly because he takes a male pronoun. He understands you better even than you understand yourself because he made you. Truly, a woman can approach the throne of grace, can come before the Savior, can be known and loved by God just as a man can. No difference, no distinction, no limitations. The trouble comes when you project your sense of humanity, of the broken gendered relationships of men and women, into the heavens. Which we do all the time.

5. When you get rid of gendered pronouns, for everyone, but especially for God, you actually increase the distance you have to go to understand and know each other. You force the Other to come onto your ground, your space, your sense of who you are, and know you in that space. Which they can’t do. They can’t. And truly, this is the opposite of love described in the Bible. Your tiny, impossible pronoun makes it impossible for you to love God, yourself, and others with the agape love of self sacrifice and self out pouring. You Cannot love the other, so focused as you are on your gender identity, which means you will never be able to love yourself. Whereas, if you address God as He, and other people in reasonable and normal ways, and don’t demand that people get on board with who you are, you shift your focus out towards the Other, towards the world. Which means that there is hope for you as a person. It’s all about love, it really is.

6. And finally, because six is the number of man and not of God, when you refuse to refer to God as He you really look catastrophically small and foolish. So ungracious, so unlovely, so tortured is the one shouting “Godself” over the din of a congregation mumbling along through the prayers that the sensible person shudders and slips out the back and goes out for a coffee instead of taking communion. What are you trying to prove? You who refuse to think of God as a man. Do you think you get an extra special blessing? Congratulations from your tribe? As I tweeted some weeks ago, “I take particular pleasure in referring to God as He, not only because the Bible does, but also because it makes all the right people angry.”

Michael Gleason #fundie patheos.com

Here is my problem with this whole issue theologically. Biblical Marriage is picture of of how Christ loves the Church. Christ is monogamous to the Church and so the Biblical view of Marriage is Monogamy. In Christ loving the Church he is always faithful, he has eyes only for his Bride (the Church). There is one Church, One Bride. In the same way the Church is called to be wholly faithful to the one who redeems us. There are many passages in the old and new that talk about being unfaithfulness to God. God throughout the Bible condemns Israel for being unfaithful. So if Biblical Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church the idea that Polyamory does not stand up to Biblical Scrutiny. If you plan to respond with the typical what about Abraham, David, Solomon...etc. You need to understand that the people in the Bible are flawed individuals that do no live up to the the Perfection of Christ. The ideal marriage in Scripture is 1 Man 1 Woman for life.

Zach W. Lorton #fundie patheos.com

Homosexuality is sin.
Polyamory is sin.
Bearing false witness by claiming to be a gender other than what God desigbed you to be is sin.
How is ANY of this unclear?
The question is not whether anyone who practices these lifestyle choices can have a relationship with God -- of course they can. But to suggest. that this is something God smiles upon is ludicrous. I don't need to search my feelings on the Nashville Statement to come to that conclusion; I need only read the Bible.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

I have to ask any pro-choice readers of this blog, as respectfully and gently as I can: What more would it take for you to see the humanity of the unborn? What exactly would you have to witness to be convinced that bodies in the womb are people? Is your position one of faith and dogma, that cannot be assailed by even the most convincing medical and video evidence? If not, what are you waiting to see?

Let’s be absolutely clear about one thing: The idea that these videos are “hoaxes” or are “deceptively edited” is a laughingstock. The only honest reason to look away, the only honest reason to not see, is to admit that you don’t want to.

Denny #fundie patheos.com

[while debating on the concept of Hell, a commenter argued that Denny lacked empathy since he was fine with people suffering in Hell]


Denny: Really? So the only people who are full of empathy are people who are depressed or anxious? Christians should be writhing in agony because of God's justice? Quite the contrary, I would not want a God who did not punish sin. If Hitler and Stalin are not in hell, I think God is very bad.

A man who pretends to be a woman is not exactly in a position to judge others. You have some serious issues of your own.

Joslyn Renfrey: You think little non-christian children deserve to go to hell, including all the little jewish children that hitler gassed: to the same hellfire they go.
My issues are laughably tame compared to yours - you see, at least I'm not a sociopath.

Denny: So a "sociopath" is anyone who doesn't share your obsessions? Fella, you need strong medications and years of therapy.

The "Self Containing Advocate" Award

Jeff #fundie patheos.com

With rare exception (and please, I have no interest in hearing from those of you who can’t wait to tell me, “I was once one of them and I got out!”), there is no reaching these people. Quarantine them and breed this cognitive and ethical deficit out of the genome. It’s the only way to ensure human survival.

[...]

If there is any hope at all for our survival (and it’s probably already too late), it lies in nullifying their influence. We need mandatory testing of intelligence, sanity and developmental level as a prerequisite for reproduction, or at the very least, for voting. The Western Europeans seem to be able to handle representative democracy; we’ve never really developed the knack. We need to run this place as a republic for a while (which I understand was the preference of some of the founders), in which power is wielded by an elite on behalf of the majority of the populace – except that in my version, the elite would be comprised not of members of a landed aristocracy, but of people with a few neurons to rub together. Naturally, this will never be done. This is the reason we’re screwed.

So, yes, I advocate the quarantining of fundamentalists. I make absolutely no apology for it.

Pastor Mark Driscoll #fundie patheos.com

The first thing to know about your penis is, that despite the way it may see, it is not your penis. Ultimately, God created you and it is his penis. You are simply borrowing it for a while.
While His penis is on loan you must admit that it is sort of just hanging out there very lonely as if it needed a home, sort of like a man wondering the streets looking for a house to live in. Knowing that His penis would need a home, God created a woman to be your wife and when you marry her and look down you will notice that your wife is shaped differently than you and makes a very nice home.

[...]

Therefore, if you are single you must remember that your penis is homeless and needs a home. But, though you may believe your hand is shaped like a home, it is not. And, though women other than your wife may look like a home, to rest there would be breaking into another man’s home. And, if you look at a man it is quite obvious that what a homeless man does not need is another man without a home.

[...]

Paul tells us that your penis actually belongs to your wife, and once you are married she will trade you it for her home (I Corinthians 7:4), and every man knows this is a very good trade for him to make.
With his penis, the man is supposed to learn to please his wife and learn how to be patient, self-controlled and be educated on how to keep his home happy and joyous (I Corinthians 7:3). The man should be aroused by his new home, and the wife should rejoice at seeing his penis rise to greet her (Song of Songs 5:14b).

Jay #fundie patheos.com

Your hairdo and wardrobe have nothing to do with this. Atheism brings nothing positive to society. It can't give us guidance on important issues and does not lead to peace. If you want to see what atheism looks like as its worked out in politics just look at Russia when Stalin was in power. Its horrible.

Sven #fundie patheos.com

[=A comment on a post regarding Universalism=]

A god who saves everyone would not be one worth worshipping. He would be a monster. If God isn't just, I want no part of Him.

Richard Gandhi #fundie patheos.com

The fact that the hairs on the back of your neck stand up to even try to spell God with a capital G, leads me to believe that somewhere inside you, you doubt your convictions. Hairs standing up on your neck, is a fear reaction. You would not fear something which your soul knew for certain did not exist.

Anne Kennedy #fundie patheos.com

And, feminism, why should there be anything more said about this ever? Well, because other people are saying stuff, and so the conversation never seems to move on to anything else.

The question that’s been percolating in my own mind, that I suppose I should genuinely try to answer, is, What business do I have, rejecting the meme of Feminism, when I have surely benefited to the nth degree by its cultural priorities over the last century? Shouldn’t my gratitude extend to a more nuanced articulation of what it is and it’s importance for everyone, rather than a flippant, “I’m not a feminist” as I have fallen into the way of saying.

Because surely I have benefited. I have various higher levels of education. I’m not strapped to my kitchen (well, that’s not true, I am, but so is my husband). I am allowed to fling an impossible number of words around in this forum. I have the freedom to go around town driving a car and wearing whatever I want. I am allowed to vote and run for public office, and even, should I so desire, work outside the home. I am not belittled and maligned in anyway because of my gender.

Certainly, I would be willing to gather up a tepid offering of praise to the vagaries of the age, and a most sincere thanks to the women who worked so devotedly on behalf of women they would never meet, whose lives they wanted to impact. When I told my children, a couple of weeks ago, that 100 years ago women in this country couldn’t vote, they were rightly shocked, and it was nice to give honor where honor was due, to women who stuck their necks out and fought for something worthy.

But, like any good human endeavor and striving, feminism didn’t stay there, did it. Feminism isn’t any more about the freedom of women to comfortably inhabit the wide open space of cultural engagement, to get an education and strive after productivity and the betterment of humanity. If that was what feminism is, then we would all be fussing a lot lot more about women in other contexts who don’t enjoy our freedom, and in general be caring about the humanity of all people everywhere.

And that isn’t on the menu of modern feminism. Show me where I’m wrong. But my experience of the feminist agenda is that 1. It is stridently political and contrary to the Christian gospel 2. It includes the dehumanization of men and infants 3. It has fallen into the pit of embracing and promoting the victim status culture so much the rage these days.

Christian women, who take the bible seriously and don’t read it with their fingers crossed and Bart Ehrman in their pocket, have to acknowledge that the humanity of the individual is a gift from God, and that every single individual’s humanity matters. That’s the baseline. So there can’t be the de-gendering of men because of all the icky testosterone. But neither can there be the chattel-izing of children, neither killing them nor reducing them to virtue signaling. When we were The Other, the war was perhaps worth fighting. But we are no longer The Other. All the stubborn blindness to our humanity has been transferred to other groups.

More also, because the humanity of others is only one side of the coin, the divinity of God has been chucked by the wayside. God is God. But modern feminism doesn’t acknowledge that remarkable fact. And God being God, he is allowed to order humanity as he wills. When you make being a woman the main thing, and jettison the habitation of scripturally defined gendered roles, you are setting yourself above God himself, and making it impossible to see the central tenant of Christianity–the incarnation of God into the world, the cross, and the saving of the world. What everybody likes to call Egalitarianism subverts the images that God himself paints into humanity to reflect his own glory.

Now, we could disagree vigorously about what Biblically Inhabited Gender Roles look like. I’m only on chapter three of my Epic of Biblical Womanhood and am struggling mightily not to let the book fall from my nerveless fingers and give up. Ms. Evans giant straw biblical woman needs to be huffed and puffed and blown right over. And maybe I’ll get to it sometime. But it would sure help the conversation if we could agree, at least, that God is the Head, and we are all subordinate to him.

To say it in the plainest way possible. Modern feminist categories have fallen into the way of idolatry, the way all human categories eventually do. An idolatry that dehumanizes the other and breaks people and systems apart rather than putting them back together. And it’s gotten to be so bad that I, as a Christian, am unwilling to brand myself with that label. Feminism, at its core, is inconsistent with my Christianity. So while I’m grateful for the sacrifice of the women of yesteryear, I’m not willing to compromise with a rigid political agenda that doesn’t build up the humanity of massive portions of the human family.

The modern iteration of feminism has squandered its own heritage. It is in the pigsty of cultural rot. I prefer the clean, cool, rich comfort of the Father’s house, even though He identifies himself with male gendered pronouns. Better one day in those courts than a thousand spent elsewhere.

John Beckett #fundie patheos.com

The high strangeness continues. The rational world – if such a thing ever existed except in the minds of a few intellectuals and atheists – is in tatters. Whether our current political and environmental disasters are its cause or its symptom is a matter of debate, but what is not up for debate – except by those who refuse to see what’s plainly there – is that we are experiencing Otherworldly phenomena at a rate and intensity not seen in generations and possibly in millennia.

I’ve experienced some of this myself. And because I write publicly about this and related issues in a respectful manner, I get comments and questions from others who’ve experienced it too, or who want to experience it for themselves.

Lately I’m getting questions about the fae.

The fae, the sidhe, the fair folk, the gentry, the good neighbors, the Aos Sí – there are many names for them. Some say they’re nature spirits, some say they’re lesser Gods, some say they’re the people who occupied these lands (especially the lands of Northwestern Europe) before our ancestors arrived. I see them as a wide range of spiritual beings who mostly keep to themselves but occasionally wander into the ordinary world for one reason or another.

The Fair Folk are not my area of expertise. If you have any interest in them at all I strongly, strongly encourage you to do some deeper reading.

Start with The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries by Walter Yeeling Evans-Wentz. It’s a survey of encounters with a variety of fae in the Celtic lands. It was first published in 1911 – most of the stories in it are from the 19th century. It’s a book that likely could not be written today, in part because most of the believers in the Otherfolk have died off, and in part because no serious academic today could dare write a book so sympathetic to the supernatural without killing their career.

A quote:

The great majority of men in cities are apt to pride themselves on their own exemption from ‘superstition’ and to smile pityingly at the poor countrymen and countrywomen who believe in fairies. But when they do so they forget that, with all their own admirable progress in material invention, with all the far-reaching data of their acquired science, with all the vast extent of their commercial and economic conquests, they themselves have ceased to be natural.

After that, get Morgan Daimler’s book Fairycraft: Following The Path Of Fairy Witchcraft, particularly if you think you want to “work with the faeries.” I did a brief review of it last September and I highly recommend it.

This is not a “what are the fae?” post, but I will say this: everything Disney taught you about faeries is wrong, and dangerous. They are not small, cute, and harmless. They range in size from tiny to giants, and while some are creatures of amazing beauty, others are the stuff of nightmares. As with humans, outward appearance is no guide to inner qualities. Some see us as occasionally useful simpletons, some as entertaining playthings, and some as lunch.

Almost all the legends and tales say they either cannot lie or will not lie, but they can and will twist the truth so grotesquely you’ll think up is down. If you deal with them, pay careful attention and be scrupulous with your word. Do not promise what you cannot, will not, or do not want to do.

I say the Fair Folk are re-emerging in the ordinary world (do not call it “our world” for it was once theirs, and they have not forgotten this), but they never really went away, not entirely. Perhaps they came into this world less often, but mainly we stopped noticing them, and we ridiculed those who did.

Now we’re seeing them, hearing them, and feeling the impact of their presence on an increasingly frequent basis. Maybe it’s because the Veil Between the Worlds isn’t what it once was. Maybe it’s because there are too many open portals. Maybe the Good Neighbors themselves are opening them. I don’t know why, I just know this is what we’re experiencing.

We’d best pay attention.

Given what our ancestors thought of the fae, why should we deal with them at all? Why not just ignore them when we can and placate them with whiskey and cream when we can’t?

Because there is much we can learn from them. Now, do not think for a minute they are here to be our teachers. If they are in this world, they are here for their own reasons, not to “help us learn and grow in love and light” or anything naïve and self-centered like that. That’s one of the things we can learn from them – to remember that life isn’t all about us and to respect the sovereignty of all beings. We can learn to be true to our word, and we can learn to be so precise in our language that our magic improves because we’re always working for exactly what we want.

We should interact with the Fair Folk because we have common interests. Again, do not think for a minute they are “on our side.” They are on no one’s side but their own – forget that at your peril. While certain fae would be quite happy if we drove ourselves to extinction, we share this world with them, or at least parts of it. And if the Earth becomes inhospitable for us, it is likely to become inhospitable for them as well. We have a common interest in caring for the Earth, or at least not screwing it up even worse than we already have.

Mainly, though, we should deal honestly with the Good Neighbors because they are our neighbors. If we treat them like good neighbors, then good neighbors they will be. If we treat them condescendingly, dismissively, or aggressively, then they will be our enemies and they will make our lives far more difficult and unpleasant than they need to be.

The virtues of hospitality and reciprocity apply to all our neighbors.

I cannot tell you how to see the fae or how to contact them and I would not if I could. Too many people have too many silly Disneyfied misconceptions about who they are and what they want and I will not be responsible for you getting yourself locked in a fairy ring to dance until you die.

But our world is changing rapidly and not for the better. We need the help of all our allies, which means we need to be allies worthy of help. The Fair Folk are re-emerging in the ordinary world. Take the time to learn a thing or two about them so they will be more likely to see you as an honorable person who they can deal with honorably.

Ronald Keith and Rendy Wright #fundie patheos.com

Ronald Keith Wright and Rendy Wright are now out on bond after an August arrest for kicking their child out of the house.

Why on earth would parents kick out a seven-year-old? Because a preacher allegedly told them he was possessed by demons.

"The couple told the child that he was to leave his home and never return, according to the arrest affidavit.

Authorities say the parents then let the child leave with no regard for his safety or whereabouts.

A Bowie County, Texas deputy also said that the couple, in a discussion with a preacher, were told that the boy is possessed by demons."

This all stems from the idea that the boy wouldn’t “do what he was told,” but good luck finding children who listen to everything their parents say. That’s not a sign of Satan. That’s a sign that they’re children.
The parents were also apparently meth users, though plenty of people take the advice of their religious leaders while sober.

The child is currently staying with a relative who hopefully knows better than to listen to a preacher’s advice on the devil.

Ariahn Zirmohn #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

It is disappointing how inaccurate this review is. A notable thing that this blogger typed out was that the straight couple in the convenience store was harassing the homosexual couple. That did not happen. Secondly, the blogger twists many of Ray's and Peter's words to make them sound like hateful pieces of trash. That was expected. The biggest thing I noticed is that the blogger says that Christians have this weird idea that speaking out against homosexuality gets you more oppressed than if you didn't. My friend, I'm not sure if you keep up with statistics, but the number of people who support same-sex marriage in this nation has risen to around 56%. Whether you want to believe it or not, true Bible-believing Christians are a very small minority. God help this nation. Please watch the movie again, and instead of calling everything Ray and Peter say "homophobic" and "anti-gay", please try being a little more objective. God bless.

dj #fundie patheos.com

Just for the record, the oldest (known) living thing on earth is the bristle cone pine found in the white mts. of N. central Ca. 4700 years according to growth rings. It has been shown that coal, oil, and diamonds can be formed in a few years. In lab tests a few weeks. Soft tissue has been found in T rex bone marrow, population geneticists have demonstrated that Neanderthals are genetically human, the human race would have gone extinct in a few thousand years due to genetic entropy.You old earthers should actually do some serious research on both sides of the fence.

Teddybearmiller #homophobia #fundie patheos.com

As Joyce Meyer said: When one group of individuals scream and kick to get what they consider to be their rights; they take away my rights. Is that fair or prejudice? The problem is not Human Rights or Constitutional Rights being violated; it is the homosexual judges and officials who are making these unjust decisions which take away the Rights of Christians to live and practice their beliefs. Even the US money has on it: IN GOD WE TRUST. At one time judges and officials had to take an oath sworn upon the bible and in the name of God. I guess that God has been flushed down the toilet and exchanged for secular rights. The owners of this Bakery in Oregon should counter sue the lesbians/homosexual community for defamation of character, slanger toward their business, loss of business and income, refusing them their Christian rights and beliefs and many more RIGHTS of these Christian bakers that have been violated. How much income would this bakery have earned for future sales to non-homosexuals? What authority does the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries have to enforce a judgement against someone for refusing service to anyone, lesbian or otherwise? This is an attack on Christianity moreso than the individuals. They were targeted by the homosexual movement/agenda. Which has planned for years to attack Christians and anyone else who doesn't agree with their perverted life-style. Go back to the mid 1980's and find the book which outlines the plan to subdue any opposition to homosexuality. Targeting Christians being part of that agenda. Using the media another main method. Their plan/agenda was orchistarted an dput together by professional propaganda specialists. After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s is a book published in 1989 by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen.[11] It argues that after the gay liberation phase of the 1970s and 1980s, gay rights groups should adopt more professional public relations techniques to convey their message. It was published by Doubleday and was generally available.

According to a Christian Broadcasting Network article by Paul Strand, Sears and Osten argue that After the Ball follows from "a 1988 summit of gay leaders in Warrenton, Virginia, who came together to agree on the agenda" and that "the two men (Kirk and Madsen) proposed using tactics on 'straight' America that are remarkably similar to the brainwashing methods of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese – mixed with Madison Avenue's most persuasive selling techniques."[13] The article goes on to claim that films such as Brokeback Mountain are part of this "well-planned propaganda campaign".http://www.massresistance.org/docs/is..

Theophile #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

I am not the one militantly insisting Christian artists in business enter into contracts to produce artwork OBSESSED WITH celebrating the marriage made in feces.
... But since you insist I celebrate this anal masturbation of yours in special contracted artwork, please answer one simple question:
# Since the homosexual idea of intimacy involves fecal matter, do homosexuals get sexually aroused down-wind from the outhouse?

Brittney Kara #fundie #quack patheos.com

I just decided to just Google aaah… what the Bible says about vaccinations. There’s nothing in the Bible that talks about vaccines. So I just want you guys to think about that. So if God knew in the future that he was gonna create these amazing things that were gonna just change our health and be the best, you know, scientific advancement, it’s just “Oh my Gosh, they’re so great, it’s like wow,” why isn’t there any thing, any inkling, of talk about these things called vaccinations coming into being later to save people? If that was really God’s plan and they’re so amazing, they why isn’t it in there at all? Maybe there’s a chapter where they talk about something like it like injection, like this health injection, right, like why didn’t God talk about that if he knew it was gonna come and save the world?

I really believe that believing in vaccines is a mental disorder.

John #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

The mental gymnastics here are truly stunning, particularly when all you have to do is examine the rest of the Bible for confirmation. Exegesis makes it all very clear. And you don't ever have to read a bunch of pagan homosexual heresy along the way. Let me help: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them" Leviticus 20:13. Seems pretty clear to me. Although I'm sure there's pro homosexual literature out there that attempts to rationalize this away as well with pseudo intellectual pagan historical revisionism...or maybe just arguments about how eating non-kosher foods was also punishable by death so being gay is no worse than that...or that Sodom wasn't destroyed by God for sexual immorality (specifically the gay sexual immorality described in the Biblical account), it was just the result of an unfortunate natural disaster.

afchief #wingnut patheos.com

Nope! Still wrong! A COURT DECISION IS NOT A LAW!! Do you understand that? Roe v Wade is NOT the law of the land. Roe v Wade was an OPINION handed down by judges. Judges and courts do not make laws, but rather merely render opinions.

Did you know that the Supreme Court once rendered the opinion that black men were inferior to whites? Did you know that the Supreme Court once ruled that women had no legal right to vote? Did you know that as recently as 1986 the Supreme Court ruled that there was no right to homosexual sodomy?

Courts only offer opinions. Opinions can change when judges change. The law cannot be changed by a “judge.” If that were the case, our “laws” would be as constantly changing as the “judges” are.

If “judges” ruled that sodomy was illegal in 1986, how did sodomy become “legal” today? Did the law change, or did the “opinions” of the “judges” change?

[An all-caps COURT DECISION is, however, still a binding legal ruling. Do you not understand that?]

NEGATIVE!!!! It is an OPINION!!!! Do you have any idea how our government works? Any at all?????

Houseman #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

(=A respone to a homosexual interpretation of the centurion and his servant=)

he account takes all the things stated by the comments into account, but all forget one thing..Jesus! Jesus knew what he was doing, not snookered by the elders or the centurion. He knew the Mosaic law about homosexuality he knew the authority behind it, his Father. so if what is being said he healed a gay man, this is incorrect. In each example during his 3 and a half year ministry Jesus never once was in accomplice in ones sins but told never to do it again. forgave them and directed them toward another path. Never to keep something sinful going. Jesus knew the heart of the centurion and if what is being said, Jesus would not have healed the 'pais', it would have been against everything he stood for, even the love his own Father is. Ones want love to continue to cover all sins, even while we keep doing them, but the time will come when God will not cover us with mercy and love but remove evil, wickedness and sin from this earth. That is love, not keep picking us up, but truly teaching us how to walk without falling. Not feeding us crumbs, but teaching us how to feed ourselves fully. This is true love!

Bishop Neophytos Masouras #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

Homosexuality is usually a problem transferred to a foetus, when a pregnant woman has anal sex and enjoys it.

It happens during the parent's intercourse or pregnancy.

It follows an abnormal sexual act between the parents. To be more clear, anal sex.

[Saint Porphyrios] says that when the woman likes that, a desire is born, and then the desire is passed on to the child.

Benjamin #fundie patheos.com

Let’s make sure we start asking brides what they intend to do after the wedding. The bible is clear- women should be “keepers of the home.” If the bride is career minded or dislikes housework, just tell her “no cake for you!” because you wouldn’t want to endorse a lifestyl

Archbishop Lewis Zeigler #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

Gays are under attack in Liberia after many Christian leaders, including Catholic Archbishop Lewis Zeigler of Monrovia, declared Ebola to be a punishment from God for the act of homosexuality.

Earlier this year, “more than 100 Bishops, Pastors, General Overseers, Prophets, Evangelists and other Ministers of the Gospel,” met under the auspices of the Liberian Council of Churches (LCC), to deliberate about the Ebola epidemic.

Ultimately, the Christian leaders unanimously endorsed the following resolution:

“That God is angry with Liberia, and that Ebola is a plague. Liberians have to pray and seek God’s forgiveness over the corruption and immoral acts (such as homosexualism, etc.) that continue to penetrate our society. As Christians, we must repent and seek God’s forgiveness.”

Previously, Archbishop Lewis Zeigler of Monrovia publicly declared the following concerning the Ebola epidemic:

“One of the major transgressions against God for which He may be punishing Liberia is the act of homosexuality.”

Robert A. J. Gagnon #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

To see just how silly Scot's arguments are, consider the following. According to Scot, appeals to Scripture and nature arguments to reject homosexual practice must be rejected because slaveowners in the antebellum American South also made appeals to Scripture and nature arguments. Never mind that the latter were bad appeals based on misunderstandings of Scripture and the former are good appeals that are based on correct understandings of Scripture understood in its historical and literary context. Scot goes with the view that if a certain type of argument can ever be used badly then all such types of argument must be bad. So let's apply Scot's principles and see what we come up with.

Scot argues that homosexualist arguments are like abolitionist arguments: they both are good because they make general appeals "inspired by the larger arc of scripture," "the message of grace" and "justice and universal brotherhood." But hold the fort: modern polyamorists, proponents of "big love," argue on the basis of the same types of principles. So the Unitarian Universalist Polyamory Awareness group which even the president of the main UU seminary (Starr King) has endorsed. By Scot's reasoning since polyamorists use the same types of argument, but do it badly, then all such types of arguments, irrespective of how equal and accurate their general appeals to scripture and justice/love are, must be rejected. That's how bad Scot's reasoning his.

Rudy Schellekens #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

[=Comment on "Would You Rather Have a Gay Child or a Dead Child ?"=]

"...parents asking their kids to change something inherent, something that son or daughter can’t change...." But that is the problematic issue, isn't it? the jury IS still out on whether it is a "born with..." issue. And yes, you can jump all over me, but an objective look at the studies cannot come to any other conclusion.

So, that being out of the way, the really important thing is how a deals with a child that is different. And by different I mean in any possible way. My child will always, no matter what the circumstances, be my child, and therefore loved by me. Even should my child turn out to be a a Bundy or a Dahmer. I will love.
But loving does not mean that I will support ar approve every kind of behavior. And that is where problems arise.

I believe the Bible clearly teaches that homosexual behavior is sin. I do not believe that homosexual behavior is acceptable to God when "two people really love each other..." We do not make that exception in any other relationship (Well, it's okay for a 25 yr old to have a sexual relation with a 13 year old. After all, they love each other). Or polygamous relationships. We do not accept the same excuse!

Unfortunately, homosexual behavior is in the spotlight (currently). The law in the US does not allow polygamous marriages, no matter how much the woman loves her three husbands. Biblically, we have the same condemnation. Whether we like it or not, we cannot invent reasons why God should (and would) allow relationships He has forbidden. Not once, not twice...

From a personal point of view, I do not have the right to change what God has written to fit my desires. And from a personal point of view, I would love my child - but will not accept or condone behavior which is not Biblical, be that sexual or any other kind of behavior. That is part of the price of our convictions. We may not be liked and may even be ridiculed or called names or lambasted on a public forum. But that, too, is part of the price of my convictions.

Shep Voice #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

[=Looking at the guys disqus profile, you see that he goes on this rant on numerous pages following the Orlando Massacre in 2016=]

Some say homosexuality harms no one but this is not true. If it was simply about “separation” of church & state that might be 1 thing. But its not:

“Normalizing” same sex relationships & marriage does have a major negative impact, harming hetrosexual families. You may not understand “cause & effect” consquences but by approving same sex lifestyles you have a negative effect on inocent gullible impressionable children. They copy adult behavior.

I call it the “undertow effect” as more children get swept into this behavior. They start with thinking 2 guys kissing or holding hands, etc. is normal behavior & later that its not bad & some take it farther. It will make it easier for gays to recruit more older children right under your nose – cause & effect laws of physics which cannot be broken w/o Jesus in your life=breakdown of the fabric of society just as Jesus prophecied 2000 years ago=spiritually selling & eating your children=acceleration of slavery to sin. The world & the US are making a grave mistake approving gay marriage.

The gay perversion is 1 of the hardest sins to get out of because it goes to the very core of your brain, spirit & being (internal sins are the worst. Its why the Bible calls it an abomination). The gay perversion is like a social cancer. Leave it in place & it will spread though out the body. Its now spreading through out society. Many ways SEEM right but its end=death (Hell, where you live alone forever). Find and carefully study my other posts. They all go together.

There are real reasons for not accepting gay and related behaviors as normal. Thus not all who are against homosexuality are homophobic nor are all whom are against such behaviors coming from hate as a motive.

Pride comes before the fall of a man. Pride parades come before the fall of mankind. However, many confuse TRUTH (upsets & offends many) and HATE. Telling someone the truth does not mean you hate them. Many ways SEEM right but its end=death (Hell).

Sleeping with/marrying your own gender is in effect SLEEPING WITH/MARRYING YOURSELF which equals being LOVER OF SELF which is an abomination [God's VALID REASON against this practice (right vs wrong love)]. It wrongly distorts, merges and blurs God’s male/female creation differences, characteristics, attributes and purpose-Lev 18:22, Rom 1:26-32, 1 Pet 4:3-4: Gal 5:19-21: 1 Cor 6:18-20. Also, even 1 man/1 woman marriages cannot be rightly put together w/o understanding God’s purpose for it (why there are so many divorces).

Accepting, promoting or participating in gay lifestyles are against God. You cannot remain a Christian if you do these things. It mocks God. Jesus was not talking out 2 nor 1000s of sides of His mouth=no confusion. Only one God can occupy true 360 deg infinity and that God is the God of Israel. Two true 360 deg infinities can not exist at the same time. Occupying this position you can never die=no other legit gods can exist.

Also, under the NT slavery (and killing anyone) was never approved. Neither God nor Jesus were ever into race nor were they ever against interracial marriage. What comes from God lasts forever. What comes from man, including his manmade religions & gods die with him. Why should God want you to live with Him forever if you do not want to know Him, His way, not yours?

Because God is real and made Commandments to His true believers, they must in turn not accept anything God does not approve of. In fact, true Christians should only grieve for the families (not the dead) in private or among themselves. They should not do anything publicly that even looks like they support homosexuality (it is called an abomination because it goes to the very core of one's brain and soul, making it one of the hardest sins to get out of=worst sins). We are not even to look like we accept, support and/or we are participating in their sin as that makes it look like we are promoting their sin which the Bible warns us not to do.

In other words, true Christians do not go to gay anything (i.e. clubs, parades, weddings, wakes, funerals, stores, watch gay shows [like the primetime ones aimed at children], movies (drives up ratings) or send your children to Boy Scouts or other organizations, etc. that install gays as leaders or try to get children to see gays as normal.

If a preacher said to kill them he is dead wrong. However, many are making a huge mistake. There is a huge difference between God's true love and worldly ideas of what love is coming from their sin nature and lack of understanding of who God and Jesus are. There is no use praying for the dead - Lk 9:60 (the unsaved are dead already and the dead cannot hear you nor can they do anything to change their status once they are dead); Lk 12:20.

No human is a child of God unless they become a true follower of Jesus = Jn 3:16-*18-21; *36; 1:12-13 = you must turn to Jesus to become a child of God (see Jn 3:3,5 - Nichodemus was a very religious man yet Jesus told him even he must be born anew or he cannot be a child of God. God's true love to the unsaved is to tell them that they need to be born anew and rightly follow Jesus not joining in in acceptance of them as they are. Find and carefully study my other posts (Hos 4:6). They all go together.

Mark Bradshaw #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

Mark Bradshaw: The author stated: "For instance, does it make any sense for a Christian to pluck Old Testament verses from their original historical and cultural context in order to clobber others, given that we are not under the Law but under Grace? It seems it would be a con to the very faith we proclaim!" ------- While we ARE under God's grace (through the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross), He (God) STILL CONDEMNS sinful behavior and we are to STILL abide by his law. Part of that law is that certain behaviors are STILL considered sin. Among them is the behavior of homosexuality (and all sexual behavior outside of man-woman marriage. Jesus said that we are to sin no more. If all sin is forgiven, then to what sin was He referring? Moral law established in the Old Testament is STILL valid and in effect. Moral law did not simply disappear because Jesus died for our sins. We are forgiven for our sins when we accept the gift of forgiveness from Jesus and develop a relationship with Him. The road to God and eternal fellowship with Him is through Jesus and Jesus alone. We are to rebuke and reject ALL sin both in ourselves and others. One must first recognize sinful behavior before one can truly reject it. And, only through Jesus can we truly reject sin.
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glenbo: >>"Moral law established in the Old Testament is STILL valid and in effect."<< Therefore, we can own, buy, sell and beat slaves to death. Women must marry their rapists. We are to murder anyone who dares to work on the Sabbath. And we are to murder all homosexuals. This is GOD'S Morality. And as Christians, you are bound to uphold it.

Mark Bradshaw: Uh, NO. You clearly do NOT understand God's law. Slavery was NOT part of God's moral law, therefore your assertion is fallacious. Same with women being require to marry their rapists - that is part of ceremonial law. Again, same with the Sabbath - part of ceremonial law and not in effect. "And we are to murder all homosexuals." ----- AGAIN, FALSE. this part of God's law was forgiven through Jesus Christ.

Clayton Gafne Jaymes #fundie patheos.com

Do you really think that your your little kid understands 'honor' and 'obedience' out of love and respect the same way they understand the physical displeasure of discipline for not doing what is told to them?

I'm thinking that it is better to have you child/ren be afraid of you bringing a spanking rather than then not fearing you or respecting/honoring/loving you more than their own will/want and desires for whatever reason/excuse they may have at that time that can get them hurt faaaaaaar worse than a spanking.

Obviously, every child gets to an age where using physical discipline gets to be counterproductive and. Thus using other means to get their attention becomes far more reasonable than any physical correction.

Tianzhu #fundie patheos.com

This notion that Christians' belief in hell results in contempt for non-Christians is not something this old geezer thought up by himself, this is something he picked up from some of his young flunkies, the little snowflakes who have the Thought Police mentality and are certain that "bigots" (defined as "people we don't like") are out to get them. When you get down to it, liberalism is really just politicized paranoia. Someone who doesn't think like them must be a horrible person, and if that person believes in hell, he must be planning to treat unbelievers badly - and never mind that his actions have never shown him to be a bigot.

Steven Anderson #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

(An excerpt from Hannah Livingston's BBC Documentary, America's Hate Preachers. Bolding is from the original quote.)

ANDERSON: To normal people, homosexuality [and] pedophilia are disgusting. To a normal person.

LIVINGSTON: Why do you put pedophilia and homosexuality in the same group?

ANDERSON: They are in the same group! Because any man who would have sex with another man would have sex with anything. Period. Like, I’ll put it this way: Any man who would have sex with another man would have sex with an animal.

LIVINGSTON: That’s blatantly not true, though!

ANDERSON: It is true! That’s reality. Even if you don’t think it’s reality—

LIVINGSTON: What do you think homosexuals should do, then?

ANDERSON: Kill themselves, as far as I’m concerned, because they’re horrible, wicked people. They’re just gonna keep molesting and destroying people. So I don’t have any advice for homosexuals, except to put a bullet in your own head so that you don’t molest my kids or anyone else’s kids.

newenglandsun #fundie patheos.com

(part of a longer arguement about the second amendment)

"Indeed. What good would any of that do against tanks, bombers, and so forth?"

Straw-man. I affirm military privatisation.
In other words, I believe that the people should be allowed to possess the same weapons as the government possesses.

"who do you envision purchasing enough tanks and fighter jets and such to fight the US government on equal terms?"

Do you understand what a free market even is?

"Nukes?"

If the governmental authorities have them, yes.

DM #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

(=A response to "Clobbering Biblical Gay Bashing=)

You lost me at: "so I’m not even having that discussion" If you build a whole argument on something that is highly debatable but you won't acknowledge there is another opinion then it is difficult to engage you in the rest of your conversation.

The Bible is very clear on homosexuality- it is a sin. Sleeping with someone before marriage is a sin, cheating on a spouse is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin. A sin is a sin and everyone on this earth has sinned. If you talk to an informed Christian they will admit that these are all sins and that not one is more severe than another. A Christian will do well to love everybody as their brother and sister in Christ but will also do well to point out an error to them when they are in the wrong. The Bible does warn that we shouldn't judge but 2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV) tells us- All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

The difference between homosexuality and other sins is that one becomes hardened to it. There are other sins that one hardens themselves to but homosexuality is one of the most prominent because it usually isn't a one time thing but more so a lifestyle. The real problem is that when someone becomes hardened to a sin they become separated from God.

What you are saying is discrediting the Bible and like many other people of the times you are trying to read the Bible to fit your opinion. Instead I would encourage you to pray to God and ask him for wisdom to understand the scriptures as it was intended, not as you want to read in to it. Biblical truths are not always popular, but they are truths-
Matthew 7:24- (ESV) “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
and
Isaiah 5:20 (ESV) Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

Thanks be to God that Christ came to earth as true God and true man, lived the perfect life in our place to be the atoning sacrifice for all of our sins, homosexuality, adultery, murder, etc... Because of this love by God for us we are washed in his blood through this perfect sacrifice for OUR sins. Those that believe in this WILL have eternal life. But my friends please don't be the one that tries to change what God's word actually says and twists his words or follow such false teachings.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (ESV)- For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Love your brother and sister in Christ, get to know them on a personal level, help them with their struggles. Furthermore explain to them the love of Christ and what he did for all sinners. Importantly when someone is caught in a Satan's snare and is trapped in a sin point the sin out to the sinner in love and gently bring them back to Christ so that their sin may not cost them their faith in God. Remember it isn't our words that will do the work but God and the Holy Spirit working through them!

Ayatollah Hossein Dehnavi #fundie #sexist #homophobia patheos.com

The Ayatollah Hossein Dehnavi is a television star and celebrity in Iran, where he offers advice on family and sexual matters. The Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) regularly airs Dehnavi pontificating on marriage, sex, child rearing, and pregnancy, while many Iranians line up and pay big money to see the leading Islamic cleric speak in person.

Dehnavi teaches that men who fantasize about other women while impregnating their wife will cause their children to be homosexual. Dehnavi claims that if a man is thinking of another woman during sex, and the sexual act results in pregnancy, “then the child will be a homosexual.”

Dehnavi also claims that the improper wearing of the hijab by a woman can also cause some men to become homosexual, stating:

Women incorrectly wearing the hijab leads to homosexuality among men.

Dehnavi also teaches that women must always submit to the sexual demands of their husband. According to Dehnavi:

Women have to provide sex to their men anywhere and at anytime.

According to Dehnavi, women should not seek sexual gratification for themselves, and are forbidden to try and “satisfy” themselves after their husband’s climax because such activity is considered a sin.

Most of Dehnavi’s advice is aimed at women. Dehnavi even advises women on wardrobe choices like the color of underwear to wear:

Those who have pale skin should wear black underwear. And those with darker or bronze skin should wear white underwear to arouse their husbands. Make sure your husband can see your underwear.

Dehnavi also warns women about having too much sex, advising sexual activity be limited to a maximum of “only twice a week, not every day” because “otherwise the man will become saturated.”

Dehnavi is popular with the public as well as hardliners within the conservative Iranian theocracy. Previously the Minister of Health, Marzieh Vahid Dastjerdi, honored Dehnavi with a “Better Health” award for his television work.

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Josh #fundie #wingnut patheos.com

But saying that I made an unsupported claim is like the pot calling the kettle black. Where is the support for your claims? All I see is subjective experience. That's also what I gave you. The difference is that the subjectivity I gave is very obvious in the culture at large. The culture looks down on gluttony/obesity, gossips, and even cheating and divorce, therefore, those sins don't need a "Nashville Statement" to point out the difference between the church and the culture.

It's funny you say we are bleeding believers. The vast majority of churches with declining memberships are the ones that don't preach what the Bible says. Those that affirm homosexuality and the liberal political agenda are losing membership. Those that hold to orthodox teachings and a generally conservative political agenda are growing.

https://goo.gl/jQUzut in reference to this poll: https://goo.gl/hE6X7s
https://goo.gl/1RH7Tr

If you were in a church that affirmed all the sins you say it affirmed or enabled, you were in a bad church. There are plenty of those out there, but the good news is that their memberships are declining. If you aren't currently in a good conservative church, I urge you to find one.