Over the weekend, somewhere between overhauling Meta’s fact-checking team and dismantling the company’s DEI programs, Mark Zuckerberg found time to record a podcast episode with Joe Rogan, gold chain and all. During their nearly three-hour-long sit-down, the CEO suggested that more corporations should embrace their “masculine energy”

“I think a lot of the corporate world is pretty culturally neutered. Masculine energy is good, and obviously, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it,” Zuckerberg said. “I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive”

“It’s one thing to say we want to be kind of, like, welcoming and make a good environment for everyone, and I think it’s another to basically say that ‘masculinity is bad,’” he added. Later in the episode, Zuckerberg credited martial arts for helping him to redefine his relationship with masculinity, telling Rogan that hanging out with his male friends while they “beat each other” has been a “positive experience”