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Elizium23 #fundie forums.catholic.com

As someone who is adopted, I resent that adoption is being co-opted by homosexualists to manufacture human beings, tear them away from biological parents, and put them in objectively harmful and unnatural family situations.

I don't know much about my birth parents except they were young, unmarried, well-educated and 3/4ths Irish. My mother may well have aborted me if she'd had the chance (it was 1971). Instead I was carefully carried to term, given up perhaps reluctantly, and placed quickly with the most loving parents I could imagine. Sacramentally married, they are permanently infertile and longed for children. My sister was adopted later. My parents never stopped, sponsoring a destitute Indian child through CNEWA, and taking in a never-ending stream of rescue cats. My parents have an abundance of love and share it with everyone they meet. They have plumbed the depths of the true meaning of marriage. Homosexuals can never have any of this.

JimG #fundie forums.catholic.com

Ultimately, same sex 'marriage' will be roundly rejected, most likely with the 'children' of same sex couples leading the charge against it. I anticipate that acquisition of children by same sex couples will become something akin to human trafficking. There will be a backlash.

kristleful #fundie forums.catholic.com

[[Happiness is a subjective thing, which in turn, means that something can be a blessing to one person and not to another, therefore, a blessing is subjective. Some children contribute to wellbeing and welfare and some do not, therefore, not every child is a blessing.]]


A blessing from God does not change in its nature according to our individually subjective reactions. Our small minds, influenced by fallen human nature, often prevent us from seeing the full goodness of God's gifts. We don't know what is best for us; we can't see the big picture; we cannot see in this life the infinite preciousness of a single human soul so loved by God that He would sacrifice Himself in its place.

I can't imagine living life thinking that only some people are blessings. I'm sure you are not saying that a person's worth is based on how happy he makes his parents when he arrives in the world... And if you agree with me there, it might be helpful to remember that we do not exist merely for ourselves. We are called to give ourselves fully to God and others in self-sacrificial love, no matter how difficult or painful the situation may be. This life is merely a journey, by which we strive toward Heaven through love and sacrifice. Yes, even if a woman loses her earthly life by bearing forth a precious new person, she has gained such a blessing---the opportunity to share in God's creation of an infinitely loved soul. And she will not regret this as she goes into the arms of her infinitely wise and loving God.


[[Certainly not. I am not talking about a person's worth at all. I am just saying that if someone is not open to life, their child is not viewed as a blessing. That being said, it can still turn into a blessing. Or it could be born a blessing and turn into not being a blessing. But that is using the definition of blessing as something that results in happiness and wellbeing. If you are going to use the definition of blessing as "God made it" then sure, everyone is a blessing. Seems like a dumb definition though. Loses its connotation as a positive thing when you say all children are blessings. Was Hitler a blessing?]]


Yes, Hitler was a blessing when God created him. He wasn't born already ordering Jews' murders; he was just as innocent and beautiful of a baby as any other person. We don't know what good effects he may have had on people before he chose a terrible path, and we don't know what was deep in his heart at the moment of death. We do know that God did not love Hitler any less than He loves the rest of us, and He still created him even though He foresaw the terrible sins Hitler would commit.

Every person is valuable to God; therefore, every person conceived is a blessing. And yes, everything God creates is a blessing, because it is good (according to God in Genesis). That definition cannot make the term "blessing" lose its positive connotation, because it is based on the fact that what God creates is good. Sin brings evil into the world, but it does not change our fundamental goodness as human beings loved by God. Hence Jesus instructs us to love our enemies and those who do us wrong, because they are still valuable and worthy of love. Likewise, a conceived child who may inadvertently cause one's life to become more difficult is still very good, valuable, loved by God, and thus a blessing.

JD27076 #fundie forums.catholic.com

What if your mother was going to die if she didn't have an abortion?
This question startled me.

I did not know what to say. I know that ALL Cases of abortion are morally wrong and a mortal sin. But, when the baseball reaches home, its kind of hard. You can say a Mother should die instead of having an abortion all day long. BUT, whats hard is saying, MY Mother should die instead of having an abortion. I do not want my mother to die.

I am a hypocrite on this subject.I will tell someone that their mother should walk in the footsteps of St. Gianna, she died for her baby. But I will not tell my mom to die for her unborn baby. I love my mom very much.

How would I respond to this? Ask yourself, what if your mom was going to die unless she had an abortion. I really do not know how to respond.

Trifelfrt #fundie forums.catholic.com

I was amazed over how long it took for the US to legalize gay "marriage". Coming from a country that legalized baby killing in the 70s, it's a bit shocking (the delay, that is!).

There is nothing to stop gay marriage from being legalized in the entire western world. The new generation overwhelmingly supports it, and people will keep defending it. Why? Because they've all swallowed the "equal rights" rhetoric. Of course, it's not a matter of equal rights -- no one really could stop a gay man from marrying a lesbian woman, for example, sexuality was never taken into consideration --, but rather of redefining the institution of marriage so as to include same-sex relations that are essentially sterile and incomparable with the union between one man and one woman.

But the truth doesn't matter to those people, because the issue has taken emotional proportions -- it's now all about "my friend, who is gay and can't marry!!1" or "my son is gay!!" or "love must win!!1" without any consideration for what marriage is. It's extremely hard to fight back "equal rights" nonsense, precisely because of its emotional appeal. Gay activists have hijacked the black civil rights movement. Now they've turned it into a human rights issue, to pretend that, just because there is no such institution as "marriage between people of the same sex", gays are discriminated against.

Prepare to watch the end of christian morality and common sense in Western civilization. It's already here. Babies can be killed, people of the same sex can marry with each other, "God doesn't exist, the universe exists with no explanation whatsoever", and so on.

Frankly, I'm now convinced there's only one way Catholics can take over the world again: reproduce like rabbits. At the end of the day, the old generation dies, and the new generation inherits the world. If traditional Catholics overbreed liberals (and average people, who just follow the liberal agenda), and actually teach their children the tenets of the faith, good philosophy, natural law, and the basics of reason, the world might be restored in Christ. Muslims are doing this in Europe.

Traditional Catholic couples should have as many children as they can, and teach them to persevere in the faith and think critically of secular philosophies.

This generation is already doomed.

punisherthunder #fundie forums.catholic.com

It's all a slippery slope with this........

Homosexual marriage, 5-10 years later polyamory marriage, 5-10 years later pedophilia marriages, 5-10 years later bestiality marriage, 5-10 years later necrophilia marriages.


In the short term, marriage as you know it could be an entirely different entity in as little as 20 years and in as much as 40 years

JimG #fundie forums.catholic.com

So what could we do to restore the dignity of marriage?

First, honor the commitment to fidelity and permanence. Make divorce difficult. Require grounds for divorce. Eliminate no-fault divorce. The very fact that it exists vitiates the marriage vows even as they are spoken. Assign and enforce alimony as liquidated damages when one abandons a lifetime commitment.

Make adultery a civil offense with civil penalties, as well as a ground for divorce and alimony.

Limit the availability of contraception. It is contraception, after all, that first broke the link between marriage and children, and ultimately led to children being treated as commodities.

That's a start.

Lisa_N #fundie forums.catholic.com

You cannot do a grave wrong in hopes of making something right. Even if the mother was risking her life by continuing the pregnancy, the reality is that there was not 100% risk of death for the mother but the abortion was a 100% risk of death for the baby.

If this is a real scenario then of course the children are angry. I used to date a boy whose mom died in childbirth. She'd had six kids and there was no reason to believe she would die giving birth to the seventh. THe kids were STILL resentful of their little sister and they were in their late teens. Frankly kids are mad at their parents who die even if it's in something besides childbirth. It's the result of immaturity and fear of abandonment.

I still don't see how you could justify the abortion so maybe you can present the argument more clearly. A couple of angry kids is hardly a reason to kill someone
Lisa N

Memaw #fundie forums.catholic.com

I would trust a Christian counseling , (working with GOD), way over a secular counseling. (They don't seem to work all that great anyway.) It worked for Josh, now if people will just stop making victims of the Duggars and let them get on with their life, Josh and his family too. That happened many years ago, they have moved on very nicely and live a very Christian life. Which is more than we can say about to many in our society. When ADULTS condone abortion, homosexuality, sex with anyone they want, even when married to someone else, pornography, trash on TV, etc,etc and etc. Who are we to judge a young boy for making bad judgements and repenting and asking forgiveness for them. And making a GOOD life for himself. The law was supposed to protect him from all this media trashing but the law failed this young man and his family. And many are jumping on the band wagon. It is unfair for those who were molested by someone to take it out on Josh. Forgiveness brings a lot of peace. The Duggars have handled this very well. They helped their son while safeguarding the other children. I give them a lot of credit on how they did that. How about we just leave them alone so they can get on with their life in peace. God Bless, Memaw

Denise1957 #fundie forums.catholic.com

Well said. The praying of the Rosary can be very effective. It does indeed need to be a war of love (for souls, IMO) and an intensive one of faith. It will help, too, to withstand the coming of more or worse persecutions, IMO.

The proponents of same-sex marriage won't likely stop at just having same-sex marriage approved in all of the western countries. I think that there will be referendums later which will force the Church to marry same-sex couples, since the forces behind the "Gay agenda" have a lot of money and power, and they know how to twist thinking through emotional appeals. I think it's more about hatred of Christianity, rather than just being about advocating for same-sex couples that's behind the "Gay agenda."

mkoopman #fundie forums.catholic.com

[Ireland today is very hospitable]

Unfortunately, not to human persons. The understanding of the human person in Ireland is clearly lost to relativism. Ireland is hospitable to Leninism and most likely a form of Trotskyism from there. The human person has one sexuality that is related to the complementarity of the two kinds. The worldly concerns of the political decline is less relevant than the lack of understanding of who we are.
We are from God and destined to return to Him. He humbled Himself and became a man, Jesus Christ, through a woman, Mary, The Queen of Heaven. Marriage is defined by the relationship of Jesus to His Church, and it involves unfathomable love expressed in His Passion and Death on the Cross.
I pray that Ireland can come to recognize who the human person is, again, and throw off the lies and deception that blinds the majority. Join Him in His Ressuraectino and take on the blessing He pours forth in the New Covenant through Pentecost.

SAVINGRACE #fundie forums.catholic.com

It's only a matter of time.

You read cases about christian bakers who have been forced to shut down or bake cakes for married same sex couples.

The Church will eventually be faced with this choice, marry same sex couples or you will be closed down and don't think that freedom of religion laws will protect us. They are being slowly eroded away. If not in our lifetime then definitely in our children's.

pepipos #fundie forums.catholic.com

SSM opens the door to numerous scenarios and yes green cards, visas, etc.. will be amongst them, as before. However SSM will definitely open the door to enhanced paedophilic activity and other very unusual monetary/legal connotations not yet even thought of.

As SSMs cannot be consummated they cannot be annulled, nor will adultery be applicable as a reason to divorce, hence all the civil marriage laws will need to change to accommodate this.

It's all completely farcical. SS relationships could have been fully catered for through type, i.e. hetero or SS.
civil partnership agreements, with specific criteria used depending on the partnership

Fr. Vincent Serpa #fundie forums.catholic.com

[Surgical assistant asks for advice on if they are bound by their belief to not assist a transition surgery]

Hi,

What the surgeon is doing it attacking a healthy organ, the man’s breasts, and mutilating them. There is no disease there. This is immoral and a sin.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.” It quotes Densinger 3722 here.

So yes, I suggest that you refuse.

JimG #fundie forums.catholic.com

Yes, I agree that same sex marriage is only a proximate end to the ultimate end of destroying religion and making the idea of "religious liberty" irrelevant and inapplicable.

At the same time, when it comes to same sex marriage, I have never seen religion as the primary opponent of those proposing it. Religion did not invent marriage. Marriage arose out of human nature as male and female. The deeper attack is not on religion; it's on human nature itself. We see increasingly an intent to disregard human nature, no matter the consequences. It's not just that only man and woman can form a conjugal relationship. That's a matter of biology. It's that many refuse even to accept human biology. They don't care how they are made. They want to do what they will to do, human nature be damned.

dominikus28 #fundie forums.catholic.com

Would it be moral for the state to punish heresy with the death penalty?

I'm only asking about the moral aspect. So I'm not interested in the likelihood or posibility of any state doing this, but simply if, let's say, Monaco made heresy illegal, would Catholics be able to deny it as immoral? St Thomas Aquinas says that murder of the soul (heresy) is worse thsn murder of the body, and many heretics were killed in the Spanish Inquisition. I know the numbers are greatly exaggerated, but let's be honest, heretics were killed for being heretics, and repentabt heretics were mercifully strangled. ISIS executes those who don't convert to Islam, but that's immoral because islam is wrong. It's a different story when talking about Catholicism because Catholicism is the correct religion. And if you accept that the state exists to help us be more virtuous, then stopping heresy fron spreading using lethal force would be justified.

It probably wouldn't be prudent to kill heretics because ideas can spread over the internet and so on, but again, my question is about the morality of this. So was it moral to kill those heretics back during the Spanish Inquisition?

needmorelight #fundie forums.catholic.com

"Well, thanks for actually confirming that the creators DID mean to have a Korrasami ending.

The problem I have, even more than the actual same-sex pairing itself, is the insinuation that (1) anyone who thinks the pairing was "forced" is either overtly homophobic or somehow not open-minded enough, which this quote seems to imply:

That's basically a way to stifle any actual critique of the way the show played out by implying that those who don't think this ending was set up well, are homophobic, too invested in a heteronormative worldview, etc.
This is what upsets me the most with Bryke's statement. Just because someone disapproves of the homosexual lifestyle doesn't mean we're hateful. I find it strange though when he talked about viewers having a heteronormative worldview. I'm heterosexual, it's the only perspective that I know. I've held hands with women before, blushed when they compliment me. That doesn't mean I'm in love with them. How else am I suppose to interpret those gestures but platonic?"

But you're right in that calling people who disagree as homophobes is actually shutting down any meaningful discussion of the story from the narrative standpoint. If they have to spell it out for viewers what their intentions were in the "romance" department, then I'm sorry but that's just bad writing.

WonderAndAwe #fundie forums.catholic.com

LGBT Propagandist: "Hey Jimmy, I hear you like boys."

Jimmy: "Yeah, but I really wish I didn't. It feels wrong"

Propagandist: "That's just close-minded bigots infecting you. Being gay is a beautiful thing and super-duper normal! Here's a box of free Trojans. Go explore your sexuality!"

Jimmy: "No, I'd rather not and never. It feels wrong and I don't want to do something like that."

Propagandist: "Jimmy, don't deny your desires. And if you're worried about how you and another man can have sex-"

Jimmy: "No, shut up and go away. I don't want to be gay."

Propagandist: "Okay, you're still in the closet. I understand. Don't worry, we'll help you come out and be proud of your sexuality."

*this kind of thing goes on for several months until...*

Jimmy: "I give up, I guess I might as well embrace my homosexuality."

Propagandist: "That's the spirit! And from what I hear, hunky Jack Williams is single and also just came out of the closet. Why don't we set you two up?"


Despicable, ain't it?

MegaSchultz #fundie forums.catholic.com

Our 17-year-old daughter's friend announced on Facebook that he has rejected God & is now practicing wicca. Is wicca considered part of the occult? We are very upset because our family has had problems with curses, etc. being placed on us by homosexual neighbors in the past. These had to be broken by a priest. We don't want to have to deal with anything like this ever again. Thank you for your help.

SaintPatrick333 #fundie forums.catholic.com

But most psychologists "are" unethical in todays age. The same counselors who only ten fifteen years ago warned against children being raised in single parent homes because they needed a mother and father to have the right balance of masculinity and femininity to have a healthy relationship/healthy childhood. These same crocks are now saying that children will be fine if raised by two men or two women. That's soooooo wrong! And SUCH a double standard. It's only because of society making being gay political that every public figure is eager to jump behind it. I can imagine many of these "activist" types would probably be less than charitable if their own children came out. It's not fair to ask a parent to accept their sons sin. If they truly love them they will not give an inch in that regard. Society calls it discrimination/bigotry/hatred yet in reality it is simply love. Pure and unpolluted love. Society has lost track of that big time.

anibal #fundie forums.catholic.com

There is something wrong with a man thinking he is a woman or a woman thinking she is a man. It is mutilation with dangerous hormones. Most transexuals were sexually abused in childhood which messed up their minds and transexuals sexually abuse children. Transexuals are mutilated gays and lesbians. I don’t care what others say but mutilating a man or woman to make them fake members of opposite sex is gay/lesbian. And gay/lesbian groups are apologists for Transexuals which is why the word T is there. They must abolish this surgical mutilation.

All transexuals are homosexual/lesbian as the act of mutilating to become false opposite sex is itself an act of homosexuality/lesbianism-sad maiming and make this illegal. Finally, sex change maimings which is mutilating some1 to make them fake members of opposite sex is comparable to trying to make a man a fake animal because he thinks he is an animal trapped in a human body. Most feminists are not speaking against this. 1 would hope that feminists would oppose the mutilation that happened to Chastity Sun Bono as feminists have spoken against Female Genital Mutilation which happens in some nations. Transexuals are mutilations which no Dr. should take part in, yet most feminists are not condemning this female genital and breast mutilation as what happened to Chastity S. Bono where her healthy breasts were mutilated, dangerous hormone shots and her genitals mutilated.

ExGratia #fundie forums.catholic.com

(On whether or not it is a sin to perform an abortion to save a mothers life)

One thing we need to keep in mind is that doctors are not gods. There have been cases of doctors telling a woman "one more pregnancy will kill you", the woman ignoring the admonition, and going on to deliver a baby and live. Only God knows the hour and moment a person will die. Not only do miracles occur, but also fallible men make mistakes.

I remember a thread in which a woman vehemently defended her mother (to the point of calling her a saint) who had aborted the poster's older brother or sister because a doctor said she would certainly die if she didn't. Her mother may or may not be a saint now due to repentance, but the effects of her error have had lasting effects on those around her; for one, her daughter's conscience is not properly formed due in part to this action.

This isn't a matter of putting the life of a baby over that of his mother. This is a matter of putting our faith in the medical machine rather than in God. And only God can save your immortal soul, which is ultimately what matters.

bogeyjlg #fundie forums.catholic.com

In rape, the victim is lowered to that of a mere object to be used to achieve the rapists own ends. That use of someone as an object is pure hatred.

When one masterbates, they are most often using an image of another to satisfy their own sexual desires. In the same token, they are using the other to achieve their own ends. That is still hatred.

Thus I see no difference.

O Sapientia #fundie forums.catholic.com

(Someone asks if masturbation is still a mortal sin if it is used as "treatment for prostate enlargement in lieu of surgery or medication, in mild cases of benign prostatic hyperplasia. While "benign", the symptoms can be quite annoying, including getting up 4 or 5 times a night to go to the bathroom.")

Then the appropriate response would be to suffer going to the bathroom a few times a night, rather than committing a grievously offensive act to spare one the trouble of walking two meters to the toilet. Aborting a feotus in instances of sparing the mother's health remains a deplorable and evil act, masturbating to alleviate a medical discomfort also remains a deplorable and evil act.

(do you have ANY idea what it is like to be unable to have a full night's sleep because of this, then have to wake up, drive 100 km to work, put in a full day's work that requires a high degree of mental concentration, and then drive 100 km home at 6 pm, often on icy and snowy roads that equally require your full attention?)

No I have never experienced your particular trial. But hardship and trial is universal to all men and there is a Catholic response to trial and hardship. It is suffering in union with Christ and His Mother.

(masturbation is not at the same level as abortion...it's not just an issue of suffering. Several times I nodded off behind the wheel coming home in the evening, from lack of a good night's sleep. It's a matter of safety of myself and those I share the road with, and simply being able to function.)

Yes there are degrees to the gravity of sin and I do not deny this. But that does not change the fact that masturbation remains a grievous offense which is one of the conditions for an act to be mortally sinful. Sodomy is of higher gravity than masturbation, masturbation is of higher gravity than fornication, all three will land you in a state of mortal sin if you have full knowledge and willfully consent. The grave nature of masturbation does not alter with our own subjective culpability. I fully acknowledge that there can be diminished capacity but diminished capacity is not an excuse to sin and penitents that may have diminished capacity due to force of habit, etc., should not be encouraged in contentment but should rather be directed towards escaping the thralldom of sin.

If your medical condition places your safety and the safety of others at risk the response is not to commit an offense of a grave nature to avoid this. It would be to not drive if you cannot do so safely. The answer would be to have the surgery done even if impotence would be an unintended side-effect. Yes your financial well-being could suffer, yes your capability to procreate may be taken from you. But to spare committing a grave and unnatural act? It would be the moral and right thing to do.

You are a Benedictine Oblate yes? You have made a solemn offering of yourself to God. If your job must go, offer it to God. If you cannot have children, offer it to God. An offering of ones self is the entire vocation of an Oblate. All of these options would be preferable, would give glory to God and lead to your own sanctification, rather than to indulge in a grave offense against God and the natural law.

He Man #fundie forums.catholic.com

Besides, when did open-mindedness become a virtue? I don't think it is bad per se, but i certainly don't think it trumps obedience, for example. I realize it, like tolerance, are two pillars of the liberal mindset (no offense intended here), but that does not make it of value in and of itself either.

Buck Crosswhite #homophobia forums.catholic.com

The only reason I can think of for homosexuals to adopt children is because they want to have sex with them.

Before everyone gets all nuts on me look at the first man to adopt children in Florida. Then he went to jail for molesting them.

Besides that homosexuality is an abberation and children shouldn't be turned over to abberrant people to rear.

OrdinaryMelkite #fundie forums.catholic.com

My personal take on this (besides the teachings of the Church) is that masturbation is an act of inherent selfishness and vanity. It takes the pleasure of a sacred act meant to consecrate God and His covenat with his creation and turns it into an act of self-love for self-gratification.

To paraphrase Blaise Pascal, one of the greatest advantages of the Christian religion is that it teaches us to hate ourselves. That self-love is wrong and Love Of God Only is the Only True Love.

Openmind77 #fundie forums.catholic.com

[a "Hindu" arguing with a Baha'i]

The other reason why you and your fellow Bahais should calm down (so to speak) is that the real Christ will be appearing pretty soon (maybe in a couple of years). This will be a great shock to you and your belief system. There is nothing wrong with your religion (I think it is just great and wonderful), but do not keep these wild expectations that your leader is the Avatar for everyone - I am afraid you will be soon very, very disappointed.

[Baha'is comment: That's very interesting my friend. What is the source for your inference that the real Christ will be upon us very soon?

Do you have any information on how we, too, can attain to your knowledge?

Also, I would not hold your breath about the Bahai population being 7 million, I think the next set of figures may well shock you.]

There is not just one single source that says that the Return of the Christ will occur soon - it is multiple and many sources (even Billy Graham - who I don't think that much of - said so just last month).

livingwordunity #fundie forums.catholic.com

["Well, duh, but that doesn't tell us anything about whether or not marriage should only be allowed for a male/female couple."]

Do you believe that the definition of gravity should be changed, too? Some people might think the current definition of gravity is unfair.

Polaris #fundie forums.catholic.com

(In a thread about a Saudi man who killed his daughter for converting to Christianity.)

Also imagine how much faith you have to have, to kill your daughter for your God. These are human beings just like you and me with the same emotions, I would not be able to do it, but he loved his God more than his family. I think that God is smiling upon both of them right now.

Seamus L #fundie forums.catholic.com

While undoubtedly there were innocent people killed by the Nationalists in Spain, the fact remains the Church hadn't yet become so anti death penalty in the 1930's. Thousands upon thousands of Communists, Socialists and Anarchists ended up dead in Spain because they chose a life of mob violence, torture, desecration and destruction of that which is Holy.

Qoeleth #homophobia #sexist forums.catholic.com

I suggest that the recent rise of homosexuality is a reaction made by a patriarchical culture to the movement to give women equal rights. Homosexuals are trying to derive women even of the status in human relationships.

A homosexual is effectively saying "I can go ahead and have a sexual relationship without including women, without having the consent of a woman." Homosexuality seems to be all about reducing the power and status of women- of making them unnecessary. I think, in spirit and effect, it is almost akin to rape.

1ke #fundie forums.catholic.com

["I think that you are confused on the definition of abortion. Medical abortion is a procedure that uses various medications to end an established pregnancy. [...] If there never was a pregnancy to begin with, then it cannot be considered abortion."]

No I am not confused.

The medical community's verbal acrobatics in an attempt to redefine preganancy so these drugs do not qualify as aborting is not recognized by the Church. What Webster says is irrelevant. What the Church says is relevant.

JOHNNYPOP #fundie forums.catholic.com

[Talking about atheists on the forum.]

To whomever....

Such as Maryk123 and one other I picked out as atheist agent provocators. They get on the boards and stir up disent and consternation denying divinity and heresy and coming close to right out blaphesmy......

When people sign up u should get there cell # and send out a code for them to enter and validate. That would block them one and all........

They must be policed. Atheists do not deserve the same typr of treatment the rest of humanity gets.

Hope u can do something about it.....
Thanks.

Dinah_Rose #fundie forums.catholic.com

I was browsing in the library the other day and found a number of books that were morally problematic for one reason or another. Some were anti-Catholic, others were anti-religion, others glorified immorality. You get the idea.

While I could not afford to do so for every bad book I came across, I was wondering if I could check out a particularly bad book and "lose" it. I would pay for the loss, the library would be compensated, and the book would no longer be available. Is this stealing? Or, if it is, can I just keep re-checking the book out on a regular basis so it is not available to others?

mgrobertson79 #fundie forums.catholic.com

[In response to "Some of the comments on this thread serve as evidence that laws protecting the rights of gays are sorely needed."]

They do not deserve nor should they get special treatment for their sexual deviancy. There is nothing that makes them special. I think we need a law that makes us all equal. Oh wait, we have that already. This is a load of bull stuff and I am surprised anyone is buying in to it. Homosexuality is a mental disorder, it was listed as such until about 40 years ago and nothing with the behavior has changed. No one is born gay or lesbian, it is a conscious choice made and a habit acquired though those choices. The Church says it is intrinsically disordered and I will not adjust my views from that because some politician's or group of liberal no it alls say so. I don't hate gays, I only wish they would stop acting like they are better than everyone else as well as shoving their sexuality on the world, it's beyond old now.

JRKH #fundie forums.catholic.com

People in the Moral theology forum are certainly free to disagree with Church teaching. However if those people happen to be Catholic, and disagree with Church teaching, they may be placing their souls at risk. Therefore it is not a good idea.

WordFuzion #fundie forums.catholic.com

Actually, I know in my heart and soul God was in the works on 9/11. If you start reading the stories of the people who were supposed to be at the World Trade Center at the time of the attacks, you will find an odd phenomena. Hundreds of people were late, got held up in traffic, took the wrong train, etc. that prevented them from being to work on time.

I do not believe for a minute that God would pour out his wrath on this country. Remember, he was willing to spare Sodomm and Gomorah if he could find but ten innocents. And also, if he was going to do that, then why send Jesus? He gave us the free will to make the choice. Some people will abuse it. But I don't think he's going to punish the innocent with the gulity.

Also, I'm sure there were many people who came to faith that day either before their deaths or people who were affected by the attacks indirectly. I have no doubt that God heard EVERY SINGLE prayer that day, from the WTC, from flight 93, and from me and my Mother in Michigan, praying in front of the TV and crying.

It was very hard for me for years to see the pictures of the people who were falling from the WTC. One in particular haunted me up until this year. Then I realized that this poor man's body was hurtling towards the ground, but his soul was safe in God's arms. His arms were full that day, but His love saved the most important part of these people - their souls.

I hope that makes sense. I've read alot about 9/11, because it was really upsetting for me and if something scares me then I start to study it until I understand it and then I'm not afraid anymore.

Gerard Nadal #fundie forums.catholic.com

[In the thread, Why Is Mary's Virginity So Important?]

In addition to all that has been posted, I add this. Joseph saw the events surrounding Mary's cousin Elizabeth, her husband having been struck mute for doubting the angel, etc. He received visions after Jesus was born. He was there when the wise men sought out Jesus and brought him gifts. He was there for the great Theophany when the angels sang at the nativity and the shepherds came to give adoration. He witnessed Simeon's recognition of Jesus as Messiah during the presentation in the Temple. And of course, Mary told him of the angel Gabriel's message.

Being the holy and upright man that he was, and given all that had transpired, would Joseph even contemplate intercourse with Mary?

Would any man among us, were we in his shoes?

catharina #fundie forums.catholic.com

[various quotes from one thread]

[yes, had I continued with the pregnancy, I would not have lived]

I scanned many of your earlier posts and I can offer sympathy for your many troubles and your confusion, nonetheless whether one doctor or 100 doctors said that (in their opinion) you would die during the pregnancy, they offered their OPINION. You chose to decide life/death in place of allowing God to act in that regard. Your CHOICE was to kill your child and "save" yourself. You acted in the place of God's action. That's the entire story. I hope you are able to return to faithfulness to the teaching of the Church ASAP.

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[It´s much the same issues as when there´s a fallopian tube pregnancy - the same arguements emerge. The fetus doesn´t have any possible chance at life, and is endangering the mother´s life by continuing the pregnancy, certain death if the pregnancy advances far.]

Many differences in place - and still abortion is NOT allowed. Get back to me when you've become a moral theologian.

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Would you say that it's better for one martyr to to die when two were called to die?

06convert #fundie forums.catholic.com

[In a thread about "embryo adoption"]

The Church does teach that surrogacy is morally wrong. This interferes with the natural process of God's creation. A life formed in the marital act of a loving husband and wife. Anything outside of this is morally unacceptable.

Although adoption and implatation is a solution, it's not a morally justifiable solution and it doesn't seem likely the Church will accept this. The reason we don't have an answer from the Church is because it's a very complicated issue. Human beings are playing God with lives, such injustice is difficult to reach a good solution.

The injustice to these embryos is that they are frozen and the moral thing to do is remove from the frozen state, to restore their human dignity. Although this would lead to their death, death would not be the intent, only the result of the injustice they already recieved by being imorally created. They would be like martyrs. This is more likely the way it will have to be. It's difficult to understand and if the Church goes this way, they will get beat up on it.

sanctareparata #fundie forums.catholic.com

Regardless of your own personal opinions, if you engage in acts that cause your husband to ejaculate outside of you, then that is point blank masturbation. It is nothing else. And masturbation is ALWAYS GRAVELY SINFUL. It doesn't matter if your ovaries are there are not, it doesn't matter if your uterus is there or not, it doesn't matter if your husband had a vasectomy. Masturbation is masturbation. Some people don't like to hear that the Church is making calls on what can or cannot be done in the privacy of their own bedroom, but I for one am quite happy that She is looking out for our souls. It's one less thing for me to worry and wonder about.

Pimpsta #fundie forums.catholic.com

Every week I go to Confession thinking that I have committed mortal sin because I will see a bare-chested woman on an uncensored music video or on reality shows like "Girls of the playboy mansion" or the plastic surgery show "Dr. 90210" or when watching a love scene in a no-under-16 movie or even a national geographic program about an African tribe where the women don't cover themselves. Television and magazines shove nudity in our faces and it just seems impossible to escape it. I feel completely guilty and think I am going to hell after seeing nudity even if it is unintentional. I hate going to Confession each week confessing "seeing impure images", the priest is starting to get the impression that I'm a porn-addict when that's not true at all. Please tell me - Is it a sin to see nudity? Grave or venial? If some of it is not, how do I judge between what is sinful and what is not so I don't accidentally profane the Eucharist when receiving it.

Shin #fundie forums.catholic.com

From what I understand smallpox wiped out most of them [The Aztecs].

Though, it's rather obvious the conquistadors were largely in it for conquest and not for much else. That being said, things were not fluffy and gentle back then, and any civilization which boasted about its cannibalism and living human sacrifices (84,000 people to dedicate a pyramid?) was obviously dedicated enough to the devil to deserve some retribution.

You don't commit living sacrifices of that many people to demon gods without building up some weighty spiritual heft against you in the heavens.

And generally disease is often seen as divine retribution. People nowadays don't like to hear it, but scripture is full of it, and apparently even the Aztecs viewed it as such.

sanctareparata #fundie forums.catholic.com

[on a thread about what sex acts are permissible in the bedroom for Catholics.]

About the mm [mutual masturbation] - you can do it so long as the man doesn't climax during it. Like the above poster said, it can be a part of foreplay, just so long as it doesn't come to the point of the husband's climax - that has to be in the woman. Always.

Tietjen #fundie forums.catholic.com

I've been living in a similar situation now for several years. My wife and I are divorced, but unlike your situation, we remained friends and stayed in contact. The whole time, in the back of my mind I was hoping and praying for reconciliation. I'd get my hopes up time and again only to have them dashed on the curbside. Finally, I told my wife, I'll be here when and if you are ever ready to work on fixing our marriage. She hasn't contacted me since. After the divorce I did fill out the paperwork for a petition of nullity. I prayed over it and told myself, "if this is the way it is supposed to be God, then your will be done." I had decided then and there to leave it to God and accept whatever the Church decided as far as the annulment went. A short time after I submitted the paperwork, I received my answer... there is no grounds to believe that the marriage is invalid. So, I remain married to a wife who has walked away from me, and the Church in order to "find herself" and pursue the "pleasures" of being single; this, after 20 years of marriage. I still wear my wedding band. I continue to be faithful and wait patiently for a miracle. Like you, most people believe that I have moved on. They’re wrong. What God has joined, no man can put asunder. Even men wearing black robes and banging gavels from a bench.

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