I can’t help rolling my eyes at liberals who claim to be against slavery, or indigenous genocide, or mass killings of left-wing people. Bruh, that’s how the capitalist sausage is made, either own it or stop being pro-sausage (preferably the latter).
40 comments
First make sure they’re actually aware that’s the general mechanism of capitalism (and, for that matter, mercantilism)—maybe not necessarily the obliterative measures you listed, but certainly any form of unrelenting extraction and homogenization it can get away with. Until then, lay off the scorn of those who aren’t actually archons.
I bet he’s anti-abortion.
EDIT: @Megacles #79175 Shit, you’re right, he’s a Commie. I read it wrong - I thought he was a really extreme fascist, who thought genocide and slavery were necessary.
Guys, it’s Chapo Trap House. The ones who decided to launch vicious personal attacks at every Dem candidate not named Bernie Sanders, and then proceeded to turn on Bernie himself when Bernie conceded to Joe Biden. They’re the ultimate Bernie-Bros who hero-worship Glenn Greenwald and Joe Rogan…
@Niam2020 #79270
Glenn Greenwald’s such an asshole he’s sending Q-anon conspiracy theories to his followers on the far left, who are unsurprisingly lapping them up. He’s been insisting lately that January 6th wasn’t THAT bad, liberals are just lying about it. Just a quick reminder that for a guy who claims to be leftist, he sure has a major blind spot when it comes to far right nuts.
I’ve lurked this site for a long time. Never expected one of my posts to end up here.
@Conscience #79181
Fascists: “We want to exterminate minorities”
Communists: “We want to end the exploitation of the working class and third world”
You, a genius: “I can’t tell these things apart”
@Titania #79420
I’m not, though? It’s the supporters of capitalism who want those things to continue, because they back the system that requires them. I want those things to end, which is why I’m a communist.
@DrKilljoy #79532
You’re a fascist chucklefuck not helping anyone. To the quote queue you go.
And you, BeamBrainless, seem to have fully swallowed the tankie sauce. Go hump Stalin’s corpse some more.
@BeamBrain #79501
The problem is that fascism and communism—at least communism as informed by Lenin (read: including Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao)—are both authoritarian, the source problem for humanity. Same with capitalism, seeing how it’s just mercantilism Mk. II. You may want to look to anarcho-communists, anarchists in general (just not so-called anarcho-libertarians and anarcho-capitalists), and any economic system that abjures fascism, capitalism, and communism alike. (I’d say look for a third option in general, but the fascists have already seized that phrase...)
@DrKilljoy #79648
You don’t know anything about German labour unions. I, on the other hand, am the son of an active trade union member. As such, my despisal of you pro-exploitation vermin with your hatred of trade unions and your conflation of them with Communism has a personal component.
Fascism is as close to Pure Evil as mass movements get. It is the conflux of all that is wrong with humanity. The only reason why it failed to reach the kill count of Communism is that it is inherently self-deluding and self-destructive, leading to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to bring ruin upon themselves in the pursuit of their monstrous and megalomanic plans - but this is of little comfort in face of the unimaginable suffering they had already inflicted on everyone involved and all the damage the Nazis did even in the final days when they were determined to take the rest of Germany with them.
@Bastethotep #79651
Labor unions promote communist causes like raising wages, increasing vacation time, and making it harder to fire workers. They build the working-class power that red butchers ride to the top. If it looks like a commie, walks like a commie, quacks like a commie… it’s a commie. Sorry your daddy (or mommy) is a crypto-tankie. Doesn’t change the fact that unions deserve the Freikorps treatment.
@Bastethotep #79651
If those things bother you, why do you support liberal capitalism despite its mass killings and enslavement against Africa, the Native Americans, the Aborigines, Latin America, &c?
@DrKilljoy :
Labor unions promote communist causes like raising wages, increasing vacation time, and making it harder to fire workers.
…Do you even listen to yourself???
@BeamBrain :@Skyknight pointed out, you are engaging in a false dichotomy. You can oppose BOTH Capitalism - which is indeed a horrible and sick system - AND Marxism - which has very much proven itself to NOT be a viable alternative. I am for a well-regulated social market economy and strong welfare state with much less privatisation than current Germany and with businesses being held responsible to their customers, workers, society as a whole and the environment, at least until someone comes up with an actual better system (which Marxism has proven itself not to be).
@BeamBrain #79657
Er, what part of his claim said he was completely fine with capitalism? Is one permitted to dislike all of fascism, capitalism, and communism? (With or without being anarchist—and I don’t think he’s anarchist.) Certainly there’s the socialisms that don’t partake of Marx and Engels, at least. I know Bakunin greatly disliked Marx, and he was definitely no friend of capitalism or authoritarianism (which fascism is a particularly distilled form of).
@Bastethotep #79661
That sounds great in theory, but it’s unsustainable. The capitalists will always use their power to erode workers’ rights, capture the regulatory agencies, and concentrate the wealth back up at the top. This is exactly what happened in the US under Reagan and continued to happen under Bush, Obama, and Trump. Then as conditions get worse for the working class, they either turn to communism (if they recognize that their lives are getting worse because the system is set up to exploit them) or fascism (if they blame minorities). In the US’ case, the working class turned to fascism, because the communist movement was already crushed by the Red Scare and decades of Cold War propaganda.
In the end, it amounts to the same thing. You have to support communism or fascism, because any form of capitalism always decays into one or the other.
@BeamBrain #79663
You’re still not explaining how to avoid all three. With any one of them, the poison of authoritarianism still persists. How do we expunge that poison outright?! Because as the USSR (from Lenin onwards, thank you) and China evince, Communism isn’t exactly authoritarianism-proof.
(Just to make sure, we are agreed that authoritarianism is inherently evil, yes? Whether claimed to be for the elite, for the gestalt nation, or for the workers. Especially when that authoritarianism helps succor genocidal goals, like with China trying to extinguish Uighur culture as a whole, or the USSR trying to de-nomadic the Chukchi, and thus shatter a massive chunk of their culture, or the myriad cases of the United States betraying the Indigenous treaties.)
@Skyknight #79675
You can’t and you don’t.
All politics is authoritarian because it’s about the acquisition and exercise of power. Attaining, holding, and using real-world power inherently involves killing, locking up, and otherwise suppressing members of political movements whose goals are at odds with your own.
@BeamBrain #79663
And both are equally gross - both are authoritarian, both set up traditionalist states, and both have utterly collapsed with but a little bit of pressure from capitalist and democratic socialist societies
@BeamBrain #79663
By the way, what is your plan to prevent the Communist vanguard/party from becoming the new elite exploiter class, as seen in real-life attempts at implementing Communism?
@Bastethotep #79694
Well, starting with not having a vanguard party, one hopes. Wasn’t that an innovation of Lenin’s, anyway? And I wouldn’t be surprised if non-Leninist Marxist thought has found other ways to refine Communist ideas (like Doing Something about Marx’s Eurocentrism).
@BeamBrain #79676
And this doesn’t sound anything like “humanity is inherently evil” to you? Truly, where is it written that stable anarchy is impossible? Just look at the Pacific Northwest before European landfall to see that humans do not inherently seek power. Authoritarianism is an aberration ; better to dispel the very idea of power, than to let it keep tormenting the universe it invaded.
(My apologies for the lateness. I genuinely didn’t see the comment until now, somehow.)
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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