Zinnia

@Zinnia

Sierra #sexist #psycho #pratt

One of the reason why we have “arbitrary” legal dividing lines in general because the world is full of delusional fools and bad-faith actors pretending to be delusional fools who “understand” other people’s thoughts and actions better than they do themselves… and as a result abuse others and blame them for their abuse. It’s not possible to draw such dividing lines for everything, nor is that always an effective or appropriate approach, but it does cut off some of the worst nonsense in situations where the only way to know the truth for certain is to develop psychic powers and mindrape the hell out of both the alleged victim and perpetrator. It becomes a much simpler matter of “Did you go over the clearly defined line? If so, you *do* know (or should have known) the consequences…”

ropecel #sexist #psycho

In regards to “in Minecraft” thing, I don’t find it any more amusing when our side uses “with votes” similarly.

But yeah, if you’re not the sort of “incel” who realizes how horrid most of the people on incel sites are fairly quickly and nopes out to somewhere less toxic, then it soon becomes less about sex for you and more about “revenge” for lack of sex.

Ken Valencia Peters #fundie #wingnut #sexist #psycho

They’re kind of like the cenobites from Hellraiser. Except said cenobites only go after those who want to suffer, deep down. These people are much more indiscriminate.

yarou #sexist #psycho

More proof that most incels don’t even care about other men/boys, just coming up with the worst possible justifications for getting their dicks wet.

SomeOrdinaryGamers #dunning-kruger #pratt #wingnut

Hey, if KF has the right to ruin people’s lives, then people have an equal right to ruin KF. It’s only fair.

mathlover #transphobia

Temporarily giving puberty blockers only fuels a child's false hope that they could ever change sex.

*What* false hope? Or rather, what *false* hope?

By the time they’ve turned 18, trans kids know that you can’t *entirely* change sex under current medical technology - at least not by a simplified, reductionist idea of biological sex. The best one can currently do by that standard is a pseudo-intersex state, which externally appears like that of the opposite sex. But, that’s still a major improvement in quality of life for the vast majority of trans people, and medical technology continues to improve… not to mention that there exist nonbinary trans people for whom some kind of pseudo-intersex state is pretty much what they want, anyway. Hope is not false if a positive outcome is achievable, even if it doesn’t look exactly like you think it would.

Judy Byington #conspiracy #wingnut #crackpot

I think, being generous here, they’re claiming that Q said something vaguely described would happen “in 2274 days”, and that it adds up that 2274 days ends up being Jan 19, 2024. If so, and the math is accurate, then it’s not a coincidence that after 2274 days, the calendar date of Jan 19, 2024 would occur, because obviously that particular date had to have been chosen in order to get the number 2274. Given that this was apparently meant to be the last day of Trump’s second term, and most Qanons have admitted that things haven’t quite gone the way they were “supposed” to, I’m surprised any of them even consider a vague, 5-year-old prediction of events still 2½ years in the future to be of current relevance. Then again they’re not really right in the head, so I shouldn’t be.

Owen Waters #crackpot #ufo #magick

I think your problem here is that you believe all forms of energy take the form of waves, which is the premise which lead to aether theory in the first place. But one of the issues with quantum mechanics is that in most cases one can only ask questions which can only be answered as “yes” or “no”. And sometimes, the question you might be asking might not quite be the same thing as the one you think you’re asking. The answer to the question “is light a particle” turns out to be yes. And the answer to the question “is light a wave” is also yes. However, what scientists were *really* asking was “does light have the basic properties which we, accurately or not, ascribe to the concepts of ‘particle’ and/or ‘wave’?” So it’s clear that it is something else which is sort of neither and both, and does not require a physical medium for its wave-like properties. (That being said, the so-called “quantum fields” may be a non-physical medium¹ of some sort, or they may not be, as they only really exist in physics as a mathematical abstraction.)

¹Non-physical in the sense that they’re not composed of particles, and aside from the Higgs field, lack any direct ties to mass.

Just because aether theory seems nice and neat to you and you don’t understand quantum mechanics doesn’t make the former objectively better.

Every-Man-His-Own-Football #transphobia

How often does that (“peak trans”) happen in real life, though? I mean, I’ve seen a few TERFs claim they were hesitatingly supportive of trans people until [severe exaggeration or outright lie] happened, but that doesn’t seem to occur all that often even in TERF circles. And they seem just as delusional and/or insincere as those “my family was Jewish but I left the faith when I found that the pastries served at religious events were FULL OF BLOOD” Nazis or the “I was a liberal until I found that other liberals were narcissistic Satan worshippers” Republicans.

Metropolitan Dodonis Chrysostomos #sexist #fundie

It should be noted that while his former church (he retired in 2011) made no real comment on his views on abortion, they really, really don’t like his views on rape. To the point where pretty much everyone with any real rank in the Greek Synod has condemned his commentary as vile or even heretical. Not mentioned above is the part where he said that women don’t get pregnant unless they want to. It’s also been noted that, during his time as a bishop, he was kind of crappy with men too, sometimes mocking them for not being manly enough.

Donald J Trump & Various commenters #wingnut

Trump has been, since his announcement for president, the most persecuted human being that I am aware of,

You misspelled “prosecuted”.

@Woman4W #transphobia

Dismissive framing aside, it’s basically true? If an AMAB person wasn’t trans, they’d be a cis man. Obviously. That’s how it works. Not sure why you think this is a gotcha.

[Edit] This is assuming that a person could be divested from their defining traits, including ones like “trans” or “black”. Were this somehow possible, it’s extremely questionable whether you could call them the same person. If you couldn’t, then this is just pointless pedagogy anyway.

GraceHoward1729 #transphobia

My response to the first part was going to be:

General Public: [Looks at TERF strawman army, then looks at actual trans people] “Uhhh… No? I haz the confuse.”
Tradcons: “That’s cute. Look, we’ll indulge you so long as you eventually go back to submitting to the patriarchy.”
2nd Wave TERFs: “Uhhh… should we take that deal and backstab them later? Because it *is* that important to us…”

But the rest of it somehow goes even more off the rails, and honestly, I’m kind of impressed by the sheer schizophrenic dumbassery. And by “impressed” I mean “revolted”.

bonesmashing & beyondRepair&4everBroken #sexist

The best way to reduce “sex work” (which in this case seems to be referring specifically to prostitution) is to make the employment market in general more fair, to reduce the need for survival work: jobs, legal or otherwise, which a lot of people only take out of desperation. Making it extra super illegal would force a small percentage of those who would otherwise choose to be sex workers into other survival work, while increasing the number of people kidnapped and sold into sex slavery. A lot of *those* people will be children.

Of course you wouldn’t want that, or at least not by itself, because that would reduce some women’s dependency on men. And I bet you’d be willing to screw over men by keeping some of them trapped in survival work just to screw over women in the same way…

Marjorie Taylor Greene & Various commenters #wingnut

It wasn’t even a raid. The FBI showed up, unarmed, with a warrant, and the staff let them in.

Even in the indignant “yOu ArE iNvAdInG mY hOmE” sense of “raid”, the state of Florida already said Trump can’t live there because it’s not in a residential zone, so legally it’s not even his home.

Amethyst Qu #magick #mammon

Rev. Kent Christmas #wingnut #fundie

I would think that at least the phrase “Render unto Caesar” would be familiar to virtually every Christian (full version: “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and render unto God that which is God’s”). The original context of this quote was basically some of Jesus’s followers saying “we don’t support the government of Rome because it is not of our religion, so therefore we should not pay taxes” and this was Jesus’s polite way of telling them “No, pay your damn taxes”. But it’s been used for basically the entire history of Christianity, along with a bunch of other quotes (mostly from the New Testament) to say that earthly authorities have their place and, as a general rule, should be obeyed and supported, even if you disagree with some aspects of their rule.

But either apparently not, or else theocrats have a really weird interpretation of this.

Moonlit Piglet, foreword Wesley Yang #pratt #transphobia

You know, my first introduction to trans people was when I was a teenager - specifically, the death of Brandon Teena, in 1993. And I was horrified by this - not because I was unaware that humans could be monsters in the name of virtue (I got more than enough of *that* from antebellum slavery, WWII, and the AIDS crisis, thanks) - but because “How many categories of people am I missing? How many are hiding because they fear death? How much misery are they going through, spending their entire lives pretending to be something they are not, for their own safety and sometimes that of the people around them? How many cases of ‘mysterious suicide’ or ‘sometimes kids just die’* are because of this?” So I get really annoyed when people existing freely as themselves is framed as some kind of social contagion. Yeah, no, they always existed, they were just mostly invisible because of people like you being monsters.

*I was a bit off with this; it turns out that the ‘sometimes kids just die’ phenomenon was mostly parents refusing to believe that a child’s life-threatening allergy or medical condition was real, to the point of refusing to even go to a doctor to make sure. That’s not to say that parents have never killed their kids for being different, it’s just mostly not that. It was still pretty terrible in a different way, though.

Brooks Agnew #crackpot #conspiracy #ufo #magick #wingnut

“The essence of this is true, but I/we don’t know any of the details, so we’re forced to invent them” is, at best, speculative historical fiction, and at worst, Lying For Jesus. Throwing in real-world people doesn’t make your story any less fictional, that’s the Spiderman Fallacy (Spiderman lives in New York, New York is real, therefore Spiderman is real).

Crafted as a trilogy of major motion pictures

Getting way, way ahead of yourself, aren’t we?

Jerry Derecha/Adrenogate #racist #conspiracy #magick #wingnut

I was unsurprised that some Q-anon types turned against him. I was also unsurprised to find those people went a little bit more extreme in the conspiracy stuff. I’m only surprised that the number of those who did still doesn’t seem to be all that high.

Various MRAs #conspiracy #dunning-kruger #psycho #sexist

<@KeithInc.> #139528

And i really don’t get how you think this is about feminism.

MRAs subscribe to the premise that everything wrong with their lives, and everything which they don’t like, is somehow the fault of women who refuse to be perfect, obedient slaves. Their “activism” largely consists of inventing reasons why this “must” be true (and never bothering to confirm any of them), and trying to convince other men to revolt against the “coming matriarchy”. So even when they’re on the same side as feminists… well, they obviously can’t be, that’s inconceivable.

Mike Adams The Health Ranger #wingnut #crackpot #conspiracy #dunning-kruger #mammon

@Croquemitaine #139534

No energy is free

They didn’t say it was free, just claimed that there were ways to get energy at near-zero cost. I am generously assuming that they meant in a relative sense. There’s a concept called EROEI - Energy Return On Energy Invested - which accounts for building and maintenance. Most current energy sources have an EROEI ratio of around 5:1 to 10:1. Fossil fuels had a ratio of 15:1 or better for most of the history of their use, but that was before we used up most of the easy-to-get and easy-to-process fuels. A ratio of, say, 200:1 is a “near-zero cost” in relative terms even if the initial energy cost to create the necessary infrastructure is enormous in absolute terms.

But as I said, no guarantee that any future technology will get anything like that kind of efficiency.

Judy Byington/White Hat Intel #conspiracy #wingnut #ufo #magick #crackpot

@WhiteNoise #139530

To illustrate the problem, until very recently, if you showed an image-identifying A.I. a picture of a grassy field, most would identify it as “contains sheep”. If you showed it a picture of a grassy field with sheep in it, most would identify it as “contains sheep and cows”. If you showed it a picture of sheep in a different context? “Contains cats”.

Some of the more recent ones have fewer issues like this, but it’s still far away from no issues.

You know, you people keep *saying* things like this, even provide predicted dates, but nothing like this *ever* happens.

Mike Adams The Health Ranger #wingnut #crackpot #conspiracy #dunning-kruger #mammon

mass can be converted into energy at nearly zero cost (via hot fusion, cold fusion, LENR, etc.)

*In theory*. In practice, those technologies don’t quite work yet, and it’s not 100% clear that they will ever be efficient enough to use for most practical purposes, which is not “nearly zero cost”. There’s certainly hope that one day they will be, but regardless, it’s not something which we could use as an immediate fix for energy issues.

Energy, in turn, can be used to create fuels and fertilizer,

If by “fuels” you mean for farming equipment and food transportation, why would you use energy to create fuel to convert back into energy? There are some specialized applications where this is the best option, but in general it’s highly inefficient. Also the current trend of turning hydrocarbons into fertilizer is unsustainable, so we need to work on better options. Unless you’re talking about phosphorus, in which case presently we need to work on recovering or retaining existing phosphorus so that it doesn’t mostly end up in the ocean, rather than mining for more or converting silicon to phosphorus via fusion or whatever idiocy you’re thinking of, because that’s not really viable or sustainable either.

The rest of this is just wishful thinking that we can burn through all of the planet’s resources and it will all naturally get recycled or replaced - which it will, just not on timescales which would allow future generations to continue maintaining civilization. And also thinking that the only thing preventing us from doing so is purposeful corruption and mismanagement intended to keep the population down… corruption and mismanagement are certainly issues, but with maybe very rare exceptions are lacking any malign purpose beyond short-term greed and power, and have less overall effect than technological and logistical bottlenecks. (Political complications count as “logistical bottlenecks” for most practical purposes.)

Ted Cruz #wingnut #elitist

This message is hardly unique to Cruz, and of course, is not actually aimed at the “slacker barista” audience (those kinds of descriptions are insulting to most service workers anyway). It’s aimed at the wealthy who never had any significant debts, out-of-touch older people who never experienced the crushingly unfair system which afflicts the younger generations, people who never went to college, and the “I succeeded because I worked hard and never took anything from anybody [but totally got a big hand up from their well-off family and community, that doesn’t count because reasons]” types.

Now if they were saying that this mitigates some of the damage but doesn’t fix the system in the long run, they might have an argument (though they’d also have to explain why writing off the damage done to at least two entire generations is an acceptable loss). We *do* need to do something more constructive as well, for the sake of Generation Alpha and beyond. But they wouldn’t, because the Republican Party (not necessarily all conservatives) actually wants an unfair system.

It also says something that they’re framing it as a form of pandering - even if that were true, it’s not like Republicans don’t also pander. A lot. It just doesn’t feel like pandering to people who lack-self awareness (or whose self-awareness have been overridden by strong emotions) if it’s aimed squarely at them, so it only seems bad when it’s pandering to other people.

@Woman4W #transphobia

Pointing out that first-wave feminism largely excluded non-white and lesbian/bi women (let alone trans people), and during second-wave feminism there was this weird contradictory duality of “trans people are weapons created by feminism to *destroy* traditional gender roles / trans people are weapons created by the patriarchy to *enforce* traditional gender roles” going on, and while trans people were helping out feminism when they could, outside of obscure gender-anarchist radfem circles they had to fight to even be allowed to.

This is an ahistorical take which presumes that trans people either didn’t meaningfully exist until the start of the 21st century (or whenever) or were completely hiding until then. In reality they have been semi-openly existing in the western world since at least the 1860s, it’s just that the general public kept erasing them and then forgetting they existed until it was semi-safe to get all up in people’s faces again.

Boss Boss #fundie

<@KeithInc.> #139482

Also, southern Iraq and Kuwait are becoming uninhabitable without major technological intervention due to murderous heatwaves. Last year they had temperatures up to 140°F high / 98°F low and 55% humidity.

@Croquemitaine #139488

Or breatharians, who insist that humans can survive on nothing but water, air, and sunshine. They either die or get caught scarfing down food behind closed doors.

@xoroshoora22 #wingnut #racist #conspiracy

Even in terms of conspiracy-theory land weirdness, I’m not sure where “the US is dominating and/or screwing over the EU” thing comes from. Only thing I can come up with is that they’re confusing the EU with NATO.

incoserve #transphobia #conspiracy

@Spacewyrm #138575

Now that I think about it, it’s probably more “force my kids to transition”, by which they mean “making it known that transitioning is an option, thus denying me control over their actions and beliefs” because making people aware of options means forcing them to take those options, or something. And maybe also stuff like socially pressuring them into taking their kids to drag queen story hour, which is as far as I know not a thing (the pressuring that is, not the story hour).

Unless they’re insisting that someone is, right now trying to coerce them personally into being trans, or molest their kids, then seems like it should be a ways further down the line. Of course if they do believe that, then they need therapy, stat.

I’m wondering what they mean by “Now we're told that we must participate”. Normally from their perspective it would mean “respecting pronouns and letting people use restrooms by gender rather than sex”, but that would seem to be already covered by “then we had to affirm”. Regardless, as much as there can be said to be a slippery slope, “they have converted us all into transgender, pedophilic pervets[sic]” is way, way below the bottom.

Tom(Montalk) #crackpot #ufo #magick #dunning-kruger

Regardless, if it even existed, it was probably just an oversized Baghdad Battery or something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery I mean, oral history gets really exaggerated after even a century.

Fusion Fade #crackpot #racist

@JeanP #138527

Maybe I’m a bit optimistic, but I don’t think it would be much worse. In exchange, we’d treat others of our own species a bit better despite any superficial differences. Perceived differences are more relative than absolute, I would hope. I don’t like the idea that someone could become significantly more monstrous than a rabid bigot without also being a clinical psychopath.

Brian Niemeier #fundie #racist #crackpot

Well, I guess if you want to use biblical measurements, you’d need to use cubits. Who uses those anymore?

Tom(Montalk) #crackpot #ufo #magick #dunning-kruger

People like this don’t really understand technology; they basically think it’s magic. It’s not much of a leap for them to also think that magic is basically technology.

Brian Niemeier #fundie #racist #crackpot

I don’t know what the limits of free speech are in Ireland. But in general, actions meant to intimidate people don’t count as free speech. Laws against menacing exist for a reason.

Indian in the Machine #quack #fundie #magick #conspiracy

Er whut. I though the soul was immortal, excepting the (presently obscure) interpretation where it’s burned to nothing in the lake of fire. But it can be “melted” via human technology? And then God can give someone a new soul despite that this would arguably not result in the same person, at least by the usual concepts of what a soul is? Even on a theological level this is bizarre.

Stephen Strang #fundie #wingnut #conspiracy

Dude… this is not hard. You can disagree with the reasons, you can even say that the reasons are lies… but either stop pretending that this is a random assault without even a pretense of justification, or stop getting your information solely from clickbait headlines.

crodish #transphobia

the tiny minority of "passing" transwomen were actually stealthing into our toilets who ACTUALLY only wanted to pee,

Implying that the main reason which present-day trans women enter restrooms is to perv on other women. You’d think people would have noticed it happening if that were the case, since it’s not at all easy to do that discreetly and people *will* screw it up a lot. Even in the poorly-designed American restrooms which have privacy issues.

The rest of this is equally idiotic, I just wanted to focus on this in particular.

Steve Sailer #dunning-kruger #racist #pratt

I’m not aware of any way which “search” is considered problematic. It *is* problematic to use the word “discover” if doing so would effectively dismiss the people who already knew about the thing in question for centuries or millennia as being unimportant, particularly if it was initially “discovered” by talking to said people.

It’s possible that “extra-terrestrial” will become problematic in the distant future when humanity has a good reason not to use Earth-centric language. As it is, this is the only real frame of reference which we can reasonably work from (aside from maybe extra-solar), and unless aliens are listening in, it harms no one. (And even if aliens are listening in, it’s hard to imagine why they’d fault us.)

“Intelligence” I might give you, as this word is too broad and vague and is occasionally used in a problematic way, and is technically not what SETI was trying do detect, at least not directly: “technology” or “civilizations” would make for a more accurate description, but a worse acronym (and the aesthetics of acronyms *do* subtly affect what people think of them and how well they’re remembered, so that can’t entirely be discounted). It was also a product of its time.

Regardless, words are not problematic simply because someone decided that they *wanted* to be offended and so made up ridiculous connotations and then forced people to accept them. They’re problematic because they imply, or are commonly used to imply, things which give incorrect impressions at best and harmful ones at worst. The fact that some people can’t see that or don’t care doesn’t change anything.

Prussian Society of America #racist #elitist

The thing about race supremacist is that one of the cores (and usually THE core) of their identity is that they are a member of [race], and being a member of [race] makes them inherently superior in all the ways which “really matter”. There are other elements involved, but this seems to be the most universal one.

Add in the fact that most of them have limited empathy and imagination, they can’t understand why other people wouldn’t think the same, that racial identity is part of the core of other people’s selves, or that other people wouldn’t necessarily see [race] as superior. This results in the sort of nonsense where other races “obviously” would attempt to oppress or genocide the “superior” race out of jealousy given half a chance, so we must oppress or genocide them out of self-defense. Anyone who attempts to prevent this is either a traitor or an idiot who just “can’t see”.

And when [race] is the one with the power to do most of the oppression, the “strongest” point of evidence is the pride celebrations of the oppressed (this comes up with homophobia and transphobia as well), because they can’t imagine how a coping mechanism against unconsciously accepting one’s own outside-impressed inferiority is not an expression of jealousy of the “superior” group.

SakuraBlossoms #transphobia

Identifying as trans usually means you're a straight homophobe

I tried to make sense of this line and failed. If you assume that gender identities aren’t real and trans people mostly date people of the same birth sex, then being self-hating *gay* homophobes is a “reasonable” conclusion given the premises (but not the only possibility). If you assume that gender identities aren’t real and trans people mostly date people of the opposite birth sex, then self-hating straight *heterophobes* is a likewise “reasonable” conclusion. If you do believe that gender identities are real, then I’m not sure what sort of misunderstanding would result in the particular combination of “straight homophobe”.

The only things I can come up with is that this is derived from a mashup of two different ideas which “make sense” from the point of view that gay/lesbian people are real and trans people aren’t, but they failed to notice that said ideas were mutually exclusive in some respect… or else maybe they have a really strange concept of what “straight” means.

Regardless, it appears that trans people are approximately 30% straight, 30% gay/lesbian, 30% bisexual, and 10% asexual, so assuming that trans people “most commonly” prefer date people of either sex and/or gender in particular is an incorrect premise.

Stonetoss #ableist #dunning-kruger #wingnut

If one were inclined to be charitable towards that general point of view, there do exist people who refuse to avail themselves of certain options, not because those things are effectively unavailable to them, or are quackery, or are high-cost-low-success-chance, or are too disruptive to their lives, but because the idea of doing it causes distress. Even then, assuming they’ve evaluated this situation correctly (and there’s a good chance they haven’t), people who think this should still butt out because you can’t just “get over” that sort of distress quickly or easily even under ideal mental health conditions, and it’s far harder when you’re suffering depression, so it’s usually far more productive to tackle the depression itself even if it means whatever you’re doing might not necessarily be the best option or combination of options.

PebbleYeet’s particular take is definitely not one you should charitable towards. He’s assuming that fat = unhealthy (not always true), that healthier living is the cure (it would help a little, so maybe in mild cases it would work as a treatment, but in severe cases the effort would drain away what little willpower you have, which is also needed for other things), and that it is a cure (false, if it’s at least partly psychological you need to untangle the root of the issue, otherwise you’re just treating it but avoiding an actual cure, and if it’s at least partly a chemical imbalance then depending on the exact cause there may not be a complete cure).

Jesse Kelly #wingnut

Dammit, this better not be actually happening. Rebekah Jones, the medical scientist who “leaked” the actual covid stats for the state of Florida back when Governor DeSantis was releasing faked data to downplay the actual infection rate, just got swatted. DeSantis says there was a warrant…

Babylon Bee #wingnut

The liberal version of this joke looks very different: “This is unfair! Now anyone could be targeted by the FBI, if they keep stolen government documents in the storage room of their golf resort!”

Eric Trump #wingnut

I wondered if this was connected to Jared Kushner mysteriously falling into a huge pile of Saudi Money ($2 Billion), but probably not, as the tweet was a few days ago and the money thing was 4 months ago. Unless Kush just gave his father-in-law a big chunk of that money…

<Typical KiwiFarms UserName Here> #psycho #sexist

…But anyway, they had a lot more evidence than just “he said, she said” at the trial, and also he pretty much admitted it, so “it’s a false accusation which was only believed because the courts think wahmen are perfect angels who never lie” is just flat out libel.

[Edit] Also, for future reference, the poster’s nym is not “Typical KiwiFarms Username Here”. The original header included the nym in question, but I assume that it was changed because it was extra super offensive.

Um. I looked into this. “Dr. Nick Bate” was his online pseudonym; his real name is Nickalaus B. Stoutzenberger. He was sent to prison for anally raping his much younger stepsister multiple times in 2009-2010 (she was 6-8 during that time, he was 19-20). His “defense” was that he was a coprophiliac (that is, had a sexual fetish for feces) and it was her fault for not wiping after using the toilet… and he apparently filmed something really gross in order to prove his fetish. This did not go well for him, like at all. He was sentenced to 40 years in prison in 2015, but will be eligible for parole hearings after serving 16½ years.

Bad as that was, it shouldn’t be a distraction from the fact that some of the Kiwifarms posters are mocking both him and his victim.

Bennett Lee Ross #crackpot #ufo #magick #conspiracy

I think this is derived from the idea that Earth is the “middle sphere” where souls are born, and once they die here, they live forever in a higher or lower “sphere” based on who they were on Earth? The lower spheres are collectively “hell” and the upper ones collectively “heaven”. If this is what they’re referring to, then they’re saying that Nimrod went to the fifth heaven after he died, the sphere of Mars (where the “righteous warriors” go), but attempted to build a tower up to the seventh heaven, the sphere of Saturn (saints, and God himself, at least until three additional heavenly spheres were added to the mythos: Fixed Stars, Primum Mobile, and Empyrean). Except that’s still a bit off from what they’re actually saying, so probably some more nonsense got mixed in there.