Spacewyrm

1. Nobody is entitled to anything
Entitlements are a figment of imagination, they exist only in the minds of humans, and function only within societies where they are allowed to function, and are facilitated (usually through tax collection to fund said "entitlement programmes")

Maybe. Entitlements are a feature of human society, formed of our many social relationships with our fellow humans. Does this mean they aren't real? I don't think so. Our social rules are made real because we live by them and enforce them. To some degree, we evolved to have certain basic elements of our social rules engrained in our minds as instinct. Unfortuneately, incels seem to lack these instincts...

2. Incels don't feel entitled to sex, they simply WANT sex
I keep seeing the "entitlement" argument repeated everywhere and it is literally just a strawman argument, [...]

It's not a strawman. Most people *want* sex, at least sometimes. Lots of people have a hard time accessing sex; nobody can get it anytime they want it. Quite a few people are virgins despite having sexual desires. If you don't feel entitled to sex, you shouldn't hate women for not giving it to you, yet you clearly do. And lots of you literally say that women should be forced to have sex with so-called incels, so...

[...] a normies reasoning for being against it would likely be more emotionally based though, more like - "women are people too, this is so misogynistic, its so hurtful, etc, etc".

Women *are* people. That is a fact. Being against violating our bodily autonomy is not an emotional argument, it's an appeal to basic human morality. And, wanting to force women to have sex with you (you know, rape) *is* misogynistic and hurtful. Those *are* bad things, just to be clear.

Most incels adhere to the "black pill philosophy", and a key "tenant" of that is basing ones life choices and interpretation of observations, on cold hard logic, so I doubt most incels (or even 5% of incels) actually believe they DESERVE sex

"Black pill philosophy" is based on observations and cold hard logic! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah sure. You observe what everybody in your little echo chamber says about the way the world works and believe it no matter how contrary to reality or nonsensical it is and you use "logic" to keep building up the false narrative. Except that if you were really using logic, you'd notice how absurd your little "blackpill world" was and give up being a self-described incel (because that's what it is- inceldom is only a label you attach to yourself)

You see because its much easier to simply create a false narrative that can be argued against, than to argue against the actual thing. Paint incels as malicious and egotistical instead of frustrated and suicidal, and its much easier to demonize incels and garner support against them.

Maybe stop worshipping mass murderersl and posting violent fantasies about women and people won't try to paint you as "malicious". What? Not all incels? But, you know, a lot. Maybe most. And *you* tolerate it in your community. Also, if you guys can't even agree that Nazis are bad...

3. Disenfranchised Males = Self Destructive Males
[...]
Modern society is extremely sexualized, there is no escape from sex as a man in these times, which is why it feels like you're being trolled whenever people say the all too cliche phrase "sex isn't the most important thing in life", nice strawman argument, now simply wanting sex because its being shoved down your throat at every waking moment, is equal to thinking its the most important thing in the world. Statements like that are nothing but dismissive shaming and silencing tactics.

No, it's not a strawman. Your words make it abundantly clear you think sex is the most important thing in the world. Nobody is trying to shame you or silence you by saying it's not. But, honestly, this is subjective. If you feel sex is the most important thing in your life, then it is. However, that is nobody's problem but yours. If you think society should take responsibility for your sexual frustration, then you'd be saying that you are entitled to sex. But we know you just *can't* be making that argument, right? Besides, there are plenty of people out there who have bad luck in romance, and plenty of male virgins too. When they tell you sex isn't the most important thing, they're trying to make you feel better. I've never had sex myself, though I'd like to. It sucks but I have other interests like video games, writing, drawing, reading, etc. If I only focused on my sex life, I'd be miserable all the not-fucking time.

Sex is in the news papers, magazines, tv, movies, video games, its in advertisements, bill boards, the internet, etc. People need to try and understand how "dystopian" of a reality this would all seem to a man who is unable to acquire sex due to unrealistic and unfair female standards that only exist due to various societal changes that resulted from feminism.

And there it is. What everybody is trying to tell you is that the reason you can't find a sex partner has nothing to do with societal changes or feminism. You're deluding yourself if you think you'd be able to find a wife in ye olde patriarchy. Female hypergamy and the "cock carousel" are myths rooted in pure fantasy; human courtship in "western" society is still pretty much one guy and one gal settle down in a monogamous relationship. The only difference feminism brings is that women can promiscuous too (but we're still shamed for it more than men). But the idea that women only fuck the 1% top hotest "Chads" is just a big fat lie. If you had any fucking sense you'd realize that more female promiscuity *increases* your chances of getting laid.

Its like a sick joke were forced to live through. Everyone is telling us to just "get over it" while ironically enjoying sex lives themselves and boasting/talking about it at every waking moment.

You think about everybody else's sex life at every waking moment isn't the same thing as them bragging about it constantly. Most of us don't have sex as often as we'd like to, I imagine.

Imagine if you woke up and basically everyone on the planet had an expensive sports car, all you see are people around you driving it, everyone with a sports car gets treated differently than those who don't, they have higher social status, etc. [...]

This analogy is flawed. Nobody would know if you were a virgin if you didn't tell them. And nobody really cares either. Maybe if you hang out with immatature assholes they'll give you shit about your virginity. But grown-ups out in the real world really really really don't give a shit. Your virginity isn't causing your social status to be lowered. If anything, it's your low social statud that's causing you to be a virgin. It may be that you're just naturally socially awkward, which sucks, but being a hate filled sadsack is counterproductive.

Its really fucked up but that is societys mindset towards men who can't get sex, they know that argument is BS, they know they are lying and sex is of the utmost importance to every human (its not the most important thing, but its really really up there on the list, some might argue 2nd or 3rd place).

First of all, this argument has nothing to do with "men who can't get sex". Most such men live with their frustration without becomming hateful sadsacks like your "blackpill" community. And most of those men will eventually be successful. Of course, you invent lies like "betabux" to turn these successes into failures.

They only repeat this BS because its really just about shaming and silencing men for daring to make society even feel a tad bit guilty or responsible for our current state of being disenfranchised. They really just expect incels to "STFU and take one for the team".

If you don't think you're entitled to sex, you shouldn't be trying to make society feel responsiblre for or guilty about your lack of sex, *right*?

Sex is clearly a vital part of every humans existence, a man doesn't even "become a man" in a sense within society until he has sex, in essence a lot of men have not undergone their "right of passage" to become part of the "tribe" that is modern human civilization.

That's really all in your head. Every society has different norms. In "western" society, for lack of a better term, the usual notion is that you should to be a man *before* you have sex. And sure, sex may be an important milestone in most people's lives but everybody does it for the first time at different times. It's not a literal rite of passage. Like I said, the only way anybody knows you're a virgin is if you tell them.

This is why all of these mass shootings are taking place, its started to branch off into other things like the "Thot Audit", more and more things like this are going to keep happening until society finally acknowledges this problem and begins to make changes.

When society acknowledges the problem, you won't be very happy. You *are* the problem.

So as it stands we now have a significant and growing pool of sexually starved men, who due to this are angry, violent, irritable and suicidal, seriously how does society expect this to play out, the most dangerous animal is the one backed into a corner with nothing to lose, when someone doesn't care if they die, worse yet they want to die just so their sad existence can end,

Most sexualy starved men don't become violent psychopaths, actually.

there is no reasoning with that person, they are on a "war path", you either kill them, give that person what they want, or you get out of their way as they proceed to claim what they want.

You want women to be subserviant sex slaves. You aren't getting that. Society won't give that to you and we won't let you claim that. If the only alternative for you is death, then you will die. And I won't shed any tears for you. If you try to claim me as your sex slave, I'll kill you myself.

4. Women aren't entitled to safety

Yes, we are. The reason we have society at all is for *everyone*'s mutual survival. Everyone includes women. Only when people pose a danger to society is it generally considered acceptable to harm them. If you think women aren't entitled to safety, you forfeit that entitlement yourself, at least in my opinion. Good thing for you I'm not in charge huh?

People don't seem to understand the danger of looking the collective male populace in they eyes, and telling them they aren't entitled to something that not too long ago they would just taking by force as a norm.

You weren't. Even in patriarchal societies, rape is a crime, idiot.

Men reformed themselves and created societies with laws and codes of conduct because it benefited the collective, especially the collective male populace, this was the function of "patriarchal societies". To manage a safe and fair distribution of resources, and that includes sexual and reproductive resources.

No. You have some dumb idea that at some point in history humans lived i in lawless anarchy where the strong crushef the weak and men were raping women all the time, until wr invented society. That's a stupid fantasy. Humans *didn't* invent society. Humans have been living in society since before we were human. Our closest relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas, also live in social groups. We form societies because it is a natural human instinct to live in a community. We would not survive without our society.

Virginity was a prerequisite for a woman to be "marriage material" because men wanted to be sure that when they married a woman she would be less likely to cheat, as she'd be more likely to be satisfied sexually with her partner due to lack of "sexual experience".

Most women don't cheat, even if they've had a lot of sexual experience. Most women in monogamous relationships actually like their partner and don't want to hurt them.

It also ensured that your investment would be worth it as you aren't footing the bill for "used goods", that may sound cruel but men have to basically invest a lot into a woman's very being, even more so today, get divorced once and half of your wealth goes to another person, and these days the women aren't even virgins, marriage is truly a raw deal in this modern era.

Sexual experience doesn't diminish a woman's value as a partner. If anything I would think an exoerienced partner would be better if you're a virgin. Plus, you know, women are people. If this is a good reason to enforce female virginity it's a damn good reason to enforce male virginity as well. Historically of course, women who cheat have been treated much much worse than men who do. So yeah, *that's* pretty fucked up. But, you view us a as property. Well fuck that, go stick your dick in a cactus. And if you're looking at a relationship as some investment you shouldn't have one. Women in this day and age don't need you to take care of us.

For the same reason Female Promiscuity was shamed and led to social ostracization. Womens hypergamy had to be kept in check otherwise the relationship dynamics between men and women would fall apart and so would the "family unit" which is basically the "building block" of society.

No, female hypergamy is a myth. There is no one reason that marriage exists but as a wide-spread custom it probably arises out of a human instinct for pair-bonding.

Crimes like Rape were especially frowned upon because it made a woman unfit for marriage and ruined her entire life, it also went against the civility agreement between men who as a collective all wanted their respective women in their lives to be safe and remain "their women" and not be "tarnished" by another man.

Well, so what? Patriarchal cultures *do* treat women as the property of men. But that's bullshit. You don't own us and any man who tries to make me his property will regret it. (Of course I know I wouldn't be subjected to that treatment; I'd be stoned to death because I'm trans...)

I hope people get the point here, the purpose of these laws and societal norms were to ensure a code of conduct amongst men, so that we would as a collective agree to allow each other to pursue and court women in a safe and organized manner, unimpeded by other men in an "unfair" manner, we all had a fair chance. There was a "social contract" at play here.

To the extent that that's true it's only because men at some point established an unjust system which subjugated women for their own bennefit. Women never had a say in any of this and if you think that's good then you deserve to be lonely and miserable until the day you die, which can't come soon enough.

In these modern times the social contract is no longer functioning, expecting men not to regress and go back to the days of rape and violence when the contract is no longer being enforced and/or adhered to, is what is truly outrageous, and not the acts themselves.

Those days never existed. Your frustration is no excuse to treat women as sub-human. And that's why we think you think you're entitled to sex. You think it's okay to use violence to get it, and you think women don't have the right to refuse you. That just makes you a rape apologist.

Men aren't entitled to sex?, true I agree, but women aren't entitled to safety either, they never were entitled to it and they never will be, it was a "provision" offered by men to women for co-operating with men to facilitate the social contract.

I'm glad most men, virgins or otherwise, don't agree with you. Our safety is not something we will accept as a gracious gift from our male overlords. It's a non-negotiable starting point for living together on society. If you think otherwise, tough shit. Try to make your twisted world a reality and you'll be put dowm like the rabid dogs you are.

The safety resided within the rule set of the social contract, which is no longer at play here, so a significant and increasing number of males are seeing no reason to function as "civil" men, there's no logical reason too, why be civil when you essentially are not even part of civilization, civility its no longer to our benefit.

Most men have these things called a conscience. Most men think of women as autonomous human beings worthy of respect. Even most sexist assholes don't view women as inhuman beings like you blackpill psychos do. The bennifit of civility is that other people will treat you with respect. If you think that you don't owe othet people some basic decency because you're sexually frustrated and if you think it's okay to hold society hostage because you can't get laid, well it sure fucking sounds like you think you're entitled to sex you sponge-brained motherfucking pile of rotten feces.

Women's actions have thrown the entire system out of order, and the violent responses of men today are retaliatory.

The system wad oppresive and evil. It's good that it is being discarded. You're retaliating? Go fuck a cactus. We've been fighting for our freedom. We won't give it back.

Society is basically trying to make average/below average males into somewhat of a "slave class" that offers their labor and utility, contributes to society, all while being barred from enjoying a basic pleasure that all the female citizens get to enjoy despite contributing less and having to risk their lives less.

Lots of women have shitty sex lives too. Most average men have romantic relationships and I'd argue most average men eventually get married. Even most below average men have a decent shot at finding love even if they have to work harder for it. The black pill incel cult has filled your head with lies and you use those lies to justify your hatred. Though, even if they were true, if you think they *do* justify your hatred, well, that only proves you believe that you are entitled to sex.

Ask yourself who are really the crazy ones, the men who go out committing acts of violence or "opt out" of society, or the society that expected these men not to do this,

The violent men, definately.

Are you fucking serious, no wonder men are opting out of society, no wonder men are going out on murder rampages.

Very few men feel so *entitled* to sex that they would go on a killing spree because they can't get laid. But very few men are incels. Even most male virgins are not incels. In truth involuntary celibacy doesn't even exist. Incelbis just an arbitrary label for a community of hateful misogynistic losers who deserve to be miserable and pathetic.

There's no real motivation to bother trying, to be a "hard worker", to be "civilized", when your reward at the end of the day is to get married to used goods who is likely only settling for you because she's aged past her prime and has a ton of baggage,

Total bullshit.

to top it off with no fault divorce laws she can easily just leave with half of your wealth, and modern society actually celebrates and endorses female promiscuity and cheating on men, so that great investment you made isn't even guaranteed to be solely yours to enjoy JFL.

Women aren't things for you to enjoy. If you can't treat us as human beings you don't deserve to be in a relationship

Men have literally no motivation to be "good people", anyone who thinks people should be "good" for the sake of "being good" is an illogical idiot that doesn't get how reality actually works.

Most people ar good because humans have a natural instinct to behave morally, thoughbthe details of what that means are often depend on the culture.

In the bible there's heaven and hell, in human laws there are cash rewards for helping law enforcement with certain tasks, and there are fines and jail time for committing crimes or breaking minor laws.
GOOD AND EVIL CAN ONLY BE TRULY (OBJECTIVELY) DEFINED BY THE FACT THAT THERE ARE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS ASSOCIATED RESPECTIVELY, that is how we truly distinguish a good act from a bad one, if we rely on subjective opinion based criteria then anyone and everyone is both right and wrong, good and bad, based on their own personal reasonings and whims. If the bible said that no matter what you do everyone goes to heaven, but "please still don't sin" nobody would give a fuck about the rules, most every Christian would be sinning without any restraint or repentance, rules mean nothing without a reward and punishment system in place.
To address another cliche statement - "where have all the good men gone", I ask "by what objective criteria are you ascribing the label "good" ". Reinstate a sufficient "rewards system" for males and you'll see all those men come running back.

Ah. So you have no intrinsic sense of right and wrong and you think everybody is just as much an amoral sociopath as you. How about this? You will treat women with respect and let us live our lives and we won't cut your (not-)fucking dick off. How's that for a "rewards system"?