various commenters #interphobia

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

Isn’t it funny, though, how they suddenly remember what the word female means?
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( pennygadget )
There are actual female athletes who lost their Olympic spot for using medicated lip balm, smoking weed, or wearing swim caps designed for afros. But this whole ass man gets to compete in women's boxing despite having a dick and a lifetime of male puberty

( FeminismIs4Women )
They pulled the same stunt with Caster Semenya, the man with a DSD.

I think it's been established that TRAs in general either do not understand what the words female and intersex mean or they pretend to be ignorant and try to muddy the water on purpose.

( TeRadF )
is there actually any substance to what the TIMs are saying? Like is he actually intersex? I can't find more info on him. Regardless it doesnt matter because he has XY chromosomes. ;

( IrishTheFrenchie )
There is no account of him, or anyone representing him, ever saying he has a DSD. He's also never said he is trans.

Therefore, IMO, he is a regular dude with a forged document.

( Researcher1536 )
"But her passport says female, BIGOT!!!!"

13 comments

I’ll be fully open, I do agree that having a transwoman compete (especially in boxing or other strength-based matches) against a ciswoman is perhaps not the most fair & sportsmanlike matchup. Being born with XY Chromosomes does give a transwoman inherently extra muscle mass and thus an unfair advantage there. The IBA does seem to agree with me on that front, for whatever it is worth.

That being said, the TERFs have been such complete and utter CUNTS about EVERYTHING “masculine” and trans so far that it’s practically IMPOSSIBLE to separate any valid arguments they might still have from the myriad of hateful & violent drivel they keep spouting. So the fact that nobody listens to them anymore is kinda their own fault.

EDIT: Just to be absolutely clear, I’m NOT saying Khelif is a man or anything like that. I did read about her having Swyer syndrome. But I do feel like this in general is a topic that could be discussed. At least, with more level-headed people.

For what it's worth, this woman is the victim of a Russian misinformation campaign. Her disqualification came from the International Boxing Association (IBA), which has a Russian chairman and is funded by Gazprom. They were the ones who claimed to have disqualified her in 2023, based on ‘an internationally recognised test’, but have refused to clarify what that test actually was. A lot of the speculation that she has an XY chromosome or is fully trans comes from Russian media, echoed by right wing grifters and now turned into a full-blown moral panic.

Hmmm, I didn’t know all of that. Considering how anti-LGBTQIA+ Russia tends to be, perhaps I should take the IBA statements with a greater grain of salt by now.

@Timjer #202858

I’ll be fully open, I do agree that having a transwoman compete (especially in boxing or other strength-based matches) against a ciswoman is perhaps not the most fair & sportsmanlike matchup. Being born with XY Chromosomes does give a transwoman inherently extra muscle mass and thus an unfair advantage there. The IBA does seem to agree with me on that front, for whatever it is worth.

Don’t be so sure about that. There are intersex conditions where someone has XY chromosomes and are, other than their reproductive systems, indistinguishable from cis women. (not to mention how intersex women with XY or other non-XX chromosomes don’t have to be transgender at all!)

Probably the best example of this is complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS), where the woman has XY chromosomes but her body is unresponsive to male hormones. She can even pretty much go through normal female puberty naturally. (seriously, I suggest reading the article)

So… no, being born with XY chromosomes doesn’t necessarily give you an inherent physical advantage. Especially if you’re looking at certain intersex conditions.

Also, even with actual trans women who transition, a lot depends on when they transition, did they go through male puberty, as well as how long they have been on hormone therapy. Not to mention how feminizing hormone replacement therapy reduces that ‘inherent’ extra muscle mass.
Yes, some things can’t be changed after male puberty; but muscle mass isn’t one of them.

It’s not about the XY chromosomes; it’s about the testosterone.

Oh, also, take care when it comes to claims about the athletic performance of trans women. The research is still evolving, there’s lots of claims (some contradicting each other), and different sports bodies have very different guidelines or rules — even in the same sport at times.
It’s not just about the science, after all; currently, this question is a burning political issue and controversy (a moral panic, even), and that can affect how sports bodies approach it.

After all, why would a sports body governing pool (AKA billiards) or even chess ban trans women from competing with cis women? What big “inherent unfair advantage” do we have there, even before hormone therapy (let alone on it)?? And yet, such bans have recently happened.

This is not solely a fairness issue. Please don’t fall for that sort of talk.

Isn't it funny, though, how transphobes throw tantrums about shit that doesn't concern them in the slightest?

Including shit they're parroting from Russian trolls?

If I offended you, I sincerely apologize. My only intent was to bring some discourse to this topic without the usual bigots interfering; merely to inform and to be informed.

I’ll fully admit that I don’t know everything about these topics, and a big problem is finding unbiased information about it. So thank you for educating me on those things.

Btw, transfolk being banned from stuff like Chess is batshit insane and makes no sense even by their inane reasoning, and I never meant to imply that such things are completely fair.

@Timjer #202865

No no, you didn’t offend me! Don’t worry :)

My only intent was to bring some discourse to this topic without the usual bigots interfering; merely to inform and to be informed.

That’s good!

I’ll fully admit that I don’t know everything about these topics, and a big problem is finding unbiased information about it. So thank you for educating me on those things.

Ehh, I don’t think I’m much of an educator. I really don’t know all that much about these things either.

Btw, transfolk being banned from stuff like Chess is batshit insane and makes no sense even by their inane reasoning, and I never meant to imply that such things are completely fair.

No worries, all good!

Sure, the inclusion of trans athletes is a major issue to manage but bigoted TERFs’ only input is to poison the wall.

They pulled the same stunt with Caster Semenya, the man with a DSD

What’s DSD? It can’t fit into “5α-Reductase 2 deficiency (5-ARD).”

She was born a woman. She is not trans.

TERFs labeling any woman who can’t uphold their standard of feminity as “fake”? Consider me surprised!

There is no account of him, or anyone representing him, ever saying he has a DSD. He's also never said he is trans.
Therefore, IMO, he is a regular dude with a forged document.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

@Starlight #202895
TERFs labeling any woman who can’t uphold their standard of feminity as “fake”? Consider me surprised!

Do they perhaps want the United States replaced with, say, The Feminist Federation of America? Where trans woman means anyone calling themselves a She, but according to the Federal Gender Appearance Guide they don’t look feminine enough?

Imane was born woman.