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Puupi #psycho #sexist mmo-champion.com

because they were sitting at the dinner table CELEBRATING the man who was holding her, a 14 year old girl, hostage and wanting to have sex with her against her will...id have killed them all too to get out of that situation...

They were celebrating their marriage. It's normal in their culture.

By the way, are you American? Are you a man? Are you circumcised?

Most (?) American men are circumcised and it is a lot more questionable thing to do compared to arranged marriages, even if the girl is 14.

I see child marriages more acceptable and moral than circumcision.

Those two things aren't remotely comparable, and I'm highly against circumcision of children. How is the marriage/rape of children by adults more moral than cutting some skin off of kids penises?

Mutilation of sexual organs of a baby compared to marriage where you may need to have sex against your will?

You know, there are lots of good things about arranged marriages as well. The girl gets a husband, a man who is feeding, protecting and taking care of her. And the husband gets a wife, who takes care of him. There is more to marriage than just sex.

Shockingly, most people have sex willingly in life. Even do everything they can to please people to get them to have sex. Ultimately, sex drives the whole human society.

So when you need to have sex against your own will - it is a bad and unwanted thing - but it isn't the most atrocious thing happening in the world.

vokal kazih, hooked, zantos, #psycho #sexist mmo-champion.com

[on a 14 yaer old child bride who poisoned her husband and at least 3 of his friends ]

Vokal: “ While I don't agree with forced marriage, killing is killing. She could have just ran away instead of poisoning a dozen or so people. Don't care if she's 14. Hope she fries, or hangs. However they do it.Just like any and every killer should.”


@kazih

She wasn't defending herself. She felt bad and wanted to make other people suffer like a typical school shooting case. You think she couldn't poison the husband in a different situation? No she wanted to kill as many ppl as possible.

Hooked: “I agree, she is pure evil. “ https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1495017-Child-Bride-Kills-Husband-and-his-3-buddies/page13?p=26405166#post26405166 So she was able to go to the market and buy rat poison without anyone noticing, but couldn't just run away?. I think she wanted to make them all pay.

Zantos: “Exactly. She had every bit of freedom she needed to get away at any time. She had just as much time to kill him by himself then to try and take out as many others as she could with him.”

Technically she wasn't kidnapped, the marriage with this man was most likely arranged by her parents, as that is what the law states has to happen for a 14 year old to be married. Wouldn't you say her parents are more to blame than the husband in question? Would you also condone her killing her parents as well because they arranged the whole thing ?Attempting to kill 14 people because you aren't in love with the man your parents forced you to marry doesn't sound like my kind of justice.

Hooked: “Not only that but her own parents probably also had an arraigned marriage. Nah this girl was just evil, plain and simple.”

puupi #psycho #sexist mmo-champion.com

on the story of a child bride who poisoned her adult husband and his friends

The people shot in school shootings are not all (often not at all - victims of columbine shooting had not bullied the shooters, despite their claim that revenge was the cause) people who bullied the shooters. I absolutley think that a violent reaction to systematic violent bullying and abuse is understandable. Just not when you shoot people who have nothing to do with it. In this case, the "friends of the guy" who were killed make it a little less justifyable, but they were still celebrating alongside him and likely took part in / attended the marriage.

So you think that guy who just stabbed 22 people is a hero?

No. I don't think this girl is a hero either. If those 22 people had all brutally bullied and victimised that guy physically / emotionally, then you could say his reaction was understandable. That is almost certainally not the case though. Many of those people will have had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Please stop trying to twist my words

No, murder is not justifiable.

Hell, I was bullied in school. I've had my ass kicked. I've felt physical and mental pain during school. No, I definitely don't see justifiable that I stabbed or shot even the biggest bully.

Rape is an awful thing, but it just another form of physical violation. Getting hit by a fist in the face and kicked to the head, stomach and back are much more dangerous than having a penis inside your vagina.

You really don't think it's insulting to suggest 50% of Nigerian girls aren't smart enough to just run away? If only you were there to tell them that all of their problems could be solved if they hop on a bus.

Well it's insulting to suggest that all Nigerian girls are unhappy with the marriage culture there and getting forcibly married is a reason to murder people.

puupi #psycho #sexist #pratt mmo-champion.com

Being forced to take the trash out or being forced to do your homework are a little different to being forced to marry (potentially for life) a man you do not wish to marry, to have sex with him as and when he desires (as is the case in their culture), bear his children without a say in the matter, and risk your life in doing so.

I was forced to go to the military (like every man in my country), I was forced to serve my country with my life (literally).

I don't think those are small things. I would do them without being forced, too. But that doesn't change they are being forced upon me.

I really have hard time understanding the demonizing of sex. Everyone WANTS to have sex in their life, it's the best thing in the world.

Now when sex is forced it becomes the WORST AND MOST ATROCIOUS THING IN THE WORLD.

How the fuck does that kind of switch happen.

Of course I think rape is bad. But I don't understand the polarization. I think there is a lot of hypocrisy, exaggeration and victimization involved.

Not all sexual experiences for all involved parties are pleasurable.

Would you look forward to sex if you were unlikely to orgasm because your partner wasn't interested in your pleasure, or even your comfort? If it was a painful experience for you because you aren't aroused by your partner, would you look forward to doing that again?

Obviously I would not enjoy it and wouldn't look forward to doing that again. But people do other discomforting things, too, because it's part of life and needs to be done. Like work.

I'm not sorry that I had to go through conscription. I, and other men, owe that to our grandfathers. Yeah it's against free will, but as I've said previously, some things in life aren't that pleasurable yet they still have to be done. The result justifies the means.

Well people who don't want to have sex are a very small minority. Asexuality is 1% or less of the population.

Eldooro #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[on a 10 year old child giving birth in mexico]
If you think 10 year olds are too young, you really shouldn't look at human history.
There's a reason for the remark "if she bleeds, she breeds". Back in the day, before penicillin, infant mortality rate was really high. In addition, you needed kids help to work the farm and whatever. The only way to accomplish a lot of things it to breed as fast as possible. This included what we define as kids.

The big deal for us is 10 year old's have no method to survive on their own. We deem them irresponsible and incapable of making live changing decisions. We believe at 18, you're smart enough for live changing decisions (excluding alcohol, being the President, a member of Congress, etc). From others perceptions about it, they look at us as we're going out of our way to teach children (<18 yo) that they can not be responsible until this magic number 18 hits them. In Texas, it's 17, btw, with a 3 year Romeo and Juliet clause.

....

I think far too often people forget we are still slaves to our biological masters. We're horny because our body says "MAKE BABY NOW!". There are 13 year old that look like 18 AND get in to bars with a fake ID. They are horny like anyone else but are held to a different standard. Right, wrong, or indifferent -- that's the way it is and it'll be a political war to change it. The war won't be able what's best for the children or adults. It'll be what looks best and will help assist in voting people in to power.

In the US, sex is a scary thing. Showing vag in a movie will get you an X rating. But showing someone losing their torso and blood everywhere may still net you a PG-13 or maybe an R. Sex is natural and something your body really likes. Killing, not so much. Personally, I find us as backwards

belzibhaal #sexist #psycho #racist mmo-champion.com

I'm nearly 35 and I've been banging the shit out of what is probably one of the hottest 16 year olds in the world for nearly 9 months. In fact, the first time I got her into bed was on her 16th birthday. Am I a degenerate?

Most likely. I realize it's a minority position here, but I think adult men should generally prefer adult women. I get that teens can be hot, but that's pretty much where the attraction ends.

I like all kinds of females. My neighbour has two incredibly gorgeous daughters who will be head turners in a year or so and they are only 12. I spent an amazing weekend in Phoenix making a 39 year old redhead scream while she was at the same hotel on business and I've taken my 49 year old lab manager to bed on more than one occasion.

As long as she's well into puberty or nor fully menopausal, I'll find a female attractive.

Why are blacks called African Americans?

I still call them negros, or isajeeps. The term "african american" just sounds plain stupid


12 year old girl speaks against abortion, and she does it well.

From the looks of this little trollop, she hasn't even hit puberty yet, let alone know what a dick feels like. She hasn't the slightest fucking idea what she is talking about.

On a somewhat related note, I don't consider a human to be a human until they have achieved sentience, so if you want to abort fetuses, have at it. Not sentient = not human.

I'll gladly give her a half cooked grenade.

And a coat hanger so she can give herself that abortion she hates so very much when she gets pregnant to her 35 year old boyfriend a year from now.

Omgodzilla #psycho mmo-champion.com

What if we started cannibalizing terrorists?
ISIS has done some disgusting things. I think its time, we return the favour. Back in World War 2, some Finnish soldiers
would skin and even cannibalize dead Russian soldiers. Why don't we do the same with ISIS? Why let their meat go to waste? Who cares if its cannibalism? Its still meat, it probably tastes good like any other meat. It would give us an extra source of protein and it would also strike a huge blow to the morale of ISIS fighters if they knew that their dead bodies would be cannibalized like that. They would shit their pants. I think its worth considering. I mean, what's wrong with cannibalism exactly? If the people you're cannibalizing are evil terrorists, then don't they deserve it?

BelziBhaal #racist #psycho mmo-champion.com

In fact, I am all for an all white state.

I would gladly live in an all white community where I can be surrounded by bright, intelligent, civilised, law abiding citizens and not have to worry about being assaulted or robbed when I go for a walk in the evening. Could you imagine it? No rap, no hiphop, no R&B. Very little crime, almost no violence and certainly no gang activity.[ Hell, I could let my daughter take the bus to school and walk home without having to worry about her getting raped on the way home. I could even let my kids go to the movies without some degenerates trying to sell them drugs or gang rape them in the cinema parking lot. Hell, they could even ride their bikes down the street without having to always be on their guard and ready to hit the dirt in case of a drive-by.

Sounds like heaven to me.


Cruor #psycho mmo-champion.com

1) This is the USA, we will not get rid of guns. It is our right to own guns so we can shoot home invaders or someone stealing our vehicle or protect our basic rights... like owning guns.

2) Yes teenagers shoplifting and running should be brutalized. DON'T STEAL.

3) Yes, "stuff" is worth more then a criminals life. If I see some guy bash in my vehicles window to steal my laptop I should have every right to kill him on the spot, with any means I have, be it shooting or bashing his skull in with a tire iron.

4) Criminals are a detriment to society. Once you steal gum or a car, your are a thief and should be put down. Its really, really easy: Don't steal, don't vandalize, don't rape, don't mug people, and you will be fine and live life without being beaten up or killed by police. Why is this a hard concept?

itisamuh #psycho #racist mmo-champion.com

Well I don't see why it's illegal, or even taboo for that matter. I'd call a brother and sister hooking up less weird than old and young people getting together, or even interracial relationships, and a hell of a lot less weird than homosexuality. Since all of those things aren't really all that frowned upon by our society anymore, there's no legitimate reason for this to be either. I may not like it, but standards are thrown out the window these days. This might as well be okay too, as long as they're both adults or, if not, similar in age. It should be discouraged, yes, but not illegal.

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com


it might not be harmful for them to lose their childhood, but it is really, really really fucking wrong. a kid should only have to think about playing, making friends, and doing homework. they shouldn't have to think about the things that come with sex, that's just wrong.
and no, danger isn't a good reason to outlaw bestiality. if danger was a good reason to outlaw something, you'd outlaw smoking and alcohol.

Yes, yes you would. And I think smoking should be outlawed, and I think it will be, with time. Alcohol has other benefits - social lubrication, mostly, that have value to society. Bestiality does not have any value beyond baseline.

So I assume you're okay with people having sex with anyone post-puberty, given your idealistic 'playing, friends, homework' trifecta. So you've lowered the bar to ~12. Logically, I used to agree with that. But I've come to understand that sexual interactions are not innately harmful, not matter the age at which they take place. These organs are functional in all regards except reproduction from the moment we're born. I would rather see parents, like bonobos, use pleasure to calm their kids, instead of violence. Only in this fucked up post-agricultural culture do we think that violence is a more acceptable means of disciplining children. If you're so worried about mental effects, maybe you should start there.

So smoking should be illegal, but parents disciplining their kids by fucking them should be legal?

Context matters. If harm is caused, it needs to be justified with a benefit. The benefit to smoking is feeble at best.

I'm not advocating for rape. Rape is simply a destructive act. But my disdain for rape does not translate into a disdain for sex, or other sexual interactions. In the context of this argument, I would say sexual interactions to calm children would be permissible and preferable to spanking or psychological abuse in the form of isolation. That doesn't mean rape, beatings, or violence.

Hyve #sexist mmo-champion.com

It was a mutually exclusive deal. The women must cover herself in front of men, to stop any temptation, and at home, she is free to dress as she wishes. These days though, that has been taken totally out of context, and had religious views stamped all over it.

Sadly, this isn't restricted purely just to Middle-Eastern Societies, but it is more prevalent due to the media coverage. Over here, we allow women to dress as they please, and rape cases are higher here, then they are in the Middle East. Now, I'm not saying they've got a good system, but merely pointing out, they had an old system (and I am talking, hundreds, if not thousands of years by the way) that ensured that both Men & Women were safe and could lead happy lives.

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com

I assume you want it banned because of secondary smoking, so justify it in the context of children. Do you think the overall negative impact of having a smoker for a parent is greater than the negative impact of having a parent who had sex with you since childhood?

Yes. If that parent is nurturing and fosters positive traits, I see no reason for harm to be part of this calculation. Sexual interactions (not necessarily penetrative sex - that's quite rare in pre-pubertal individuals who are victims of sexual abuse, more common in ephebes) can serve as a powerful mechanism of pair bonding that can act to strengthen familial ties and improve trust between individuals - as long as you don't have a culture that condemns you as a victim with no agency, and your parents as rapists who are going to jail.

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[ in response to this article http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-judge-delivers-blistering-rebuke-of-lower-court-sex-assault-decision-1.3694814 regarding a boy being acquitted for raping a girl depite the girl clearly saying no and fighting back ]

Question for the other guys out there:

How many of you had an experience in college where a girl was initially pretty unresponsive or even kind of weakly defensive but suddenly really got into it after you made a few moves? I certainly did, and it wasn't a situation where she was blackout drunk. She just ended up in my bed on some pretext (I think her roommate was hooking up with someone, but she had other options besides climbing into a twin bed with a single guy so it seemed pretty clear what her intent was). Her actions after getting in bed left me pretty confused, she was totally unresponsive to kissing and groping but didn't stop me. However, when I did the right thing she was suddenly all over me. I kind of figured out the boundaries through trial and error. On subsequent nights, I kept pushing and they gradually expanded too (lol).

I wasn't some sort of sexual predator, I was just a shy kid. I read the (nonverbal) signals correctly and it worked out, we dated for a few months after that.

...

That's why, when I hear something like this, I think: here's a guy who's gotten the wrong message, but he's young and hasn't figured this whole dating/sex thing out yet. Make sure he knows that what he did is very wrong, punish him, but nothing that will impact his life long term. He deserves the chance to prove whether he's learned from his mistake.

Stelio Kontos #homophobia mmo-champion.com

When I started attending the indoctrination centres Americans call college, I was on the fence regarding gay rights. I am Greek Orthodox myself, so I come from a similar religious background as most religious Russians (and others from the Balkans and Eastern Europe).

But as I was exposed to the "gay rights" crowd, I saw nothing but disdain and hatred for my religion. This was quite surprising to me, as learning about the civil rights movement in the US it's obvious faith communities played a vital role. Martin Luther King Jr was a pastor, and he marched with prominent Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox church leaders, along with rabbis and the Muslim community.

So as time has gone on, the view held by most occidentals (westerners) and the bigoted way they talk about any religious views regarding social issues, ended up cementing my view on the issue. I won't condone violence or the killing of gays, but if the Russian government has the backing of the majority of the populace in making laws without being dictated to by less than 5% of the population, more power to them. I'm fine with the Russian laws. I may have been more open to the issue years back, but actually meeting the other side showed me they have no respect or even basic decency for people with religious beliefs. SO I have no reason to support them. At all.

Cruor #psycho mmo-champion.com

This Is Why Police Shoot Runners

There is constant crying on these forums and from liberals about police shooting fleeing suspects. Well, now you see why they do it. This guy fled when the cops showed up, they went after him (without showering him in a hail of gunfire the instant he turned to run as they should have) he ran into some bushes to hide, so they got dogs. He got a good firing position, shot the dog, shot the dog handler, and shot 3 additional cops before being shot himself. So, there you go. That is why cops need to shoot fleeing suspects. Moral of the story: People who run are guilty and should be shot. If you aren't guilty, don't run. If you are guilty, and want to run, better hope you are quick and good at dodging bullets. Here is the story: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/16/four-cops-shot-in-south-carolina.html A non Fox News link for the liberals: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/York-County-Officers-Shot-Responding-Domestic-Violence-Call-South-Carolina-469512453.html

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[on rape]

JTBC, my stance in this area reflects my view of incarceration as a whole - I think our society is way too quick to ruin lives with long jail sentences and excessively penurious punishments. You're advocating punishing someone for something they might not have known was wrong at the time they were doing it, because the other party to the act decides later that it was, and that punishment is basically, "ok, might as well give up on having any sort of success for the rest of your life." It seems like a crazy perspective to me - I'd urge to not be so quick to throw lives away.

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

If the girl is conscious, in my opinion it's up to her to say no. Does it mean that if she doesn't say no, it's always ok? No... it's a grey area and might be a really dick move. But at the same time, think about the punishment for rape - it is basically that your life is over. I'd prefer to err on the side of not destroying lives than potentially destroying the life of someone who's innocent.

Was the girl who didn't say no "Asking for it?"... nah. I'm just more of the belief that stuff happens and to convict someone of an incredibly serious crime should require something obviously over the line.

Are you intentionally leveraging their inebriated state for sex? Because, if that's a yes, it's pretty much the same thing as drugging them for sex.

Major, major difference here - "drugging them for sex" usually means it is without their knowledge. Much different from them getting drunk themselves... if they consciously put themselves in a state where they make decisions they wouldn't make when they were sober (even if the guy is the one giving them the drinks) - yeah there's a good chance the guy is an asshole, but again I don't think it warrants ruining the guy's life.

So... If the girl you want to have sex with is wasted, but still vaguely coherent... If 'taking advantage of her' (aka get some when you know you'd have no chance normally) is OK, Is it also OK to take all the money out of her wallet? She normally wouldn't just you have $200, but hey... She didn't say not to.

That's a specious argument. Stealing is always bad. Violence is always bad.

With most crimes, the act itself is the problem - you steal, you commit violence. Sex is usually an enjoyable act, unlike getting punched in the face or having your money stolen. What makes sex complicated is its an act that often people enjoy sharing with each other but sometimes is a crime. You can't compare it to most other crimes because consent matters.

By the way - I'm specifically opposed to charging someone with rape in this instance. Remember - rape means years in jail. It means registering as a sex offender and being unable to live in many areas for the rest of your life. It means never being able to get a job because you have to admit to a felony. It means, basically, your life is utterly destroyed. Does it really make sense to do this to someone who was (probably drunk himself) and unable to infer whether the person was having sex just because she was drunk? I'm ok with sending them to counselling, or requiring they don't drink for a while, community service, whatever. I just think rape needs to be saved for more serious offenders.

Cassidin #homophobia mmo-champion.com

[on a family beating up their son for being gay]


First off......... This all sounds and looks so staged - so I don't believe it anyway.....

However..... Someone may not choose how they are - but they choose if they follow how they feel or not. Note I am not making a comment for or against any lifestyle here - just pointing out. Some people are also predisposed to being attracted to children - but not all of these people become predatory paedophiles. Again I am not likening this to being gay, I am just pointing out that people don't always have to follow how they "are". There are times when we are truly grateful when they DON'T follow "who they are".

The other thing that people never seem to pay any attention to is that while someone may have every right to be gay/lesbian/bi/straight/whatever, and to believe that this is totally fine whatever it is.... people often ignore that people also have the right to NOT agree with that. Abusing someone based on their orientation (or any other factor) is never ok, but neither is it ok to abuse people because they do NOT share the commonly accepted view. If this video was not staged, then we have a family that have decided they disagree with homosexuality - and surely they have that right? Everyone has the right to believe as they want to. If you try and remove peoples right to believe how they want to on this subject then all you are doing is abusing people because they want to stand out as different. Isnt that EXACTLY what people complained that gays were doing a few years ago? They were abused for being "different" - so not everyone abuses those that disagree with homosexuality because they do not conform.

You cant have it both ways.... either people are free to form their own opinions or they are not. As for the person saying that the parents should be killed because they do not want their son living with them if he is gay..... I suggest a long look at your priorities.... murder because someone has a different view to you? Ever heard of tolerance? It DOES go both ways you know.

I am not stating my view on this matter - just putting some of the comments into a perspective that is very rarely heard - that people ALL have the right to their own opinions, and if someone's just doesnt happen to agree with the majority that is no reason to be abusive to them. This is somethign that gay rights activists have been fighting for for years. It kind of makes a mockery of it when those very people then start to abuse those against them now they have become more popular.

itisamuh #homophobia mmo-champion.com

the normal status quo is man plus woman. It has nothing to do with state vs federal (for me anyway.) I simply see no reason for society to go out of its way to support every single oddity people can come up with. Especially since, if we deviate from the obvious norm once, then why not do it again? Why not legalize incest, provided both parties consent? Why not lower the age of consent to post-puberty, since they do it anyway? Etc. None of those things are "natural restraints" and all of them involve "natural attraction." If we revoke our purely man-made laws for one deviation, then all the others start asking for it, and the reasons for denying them become flemsy. Better to just not cross the line in the first place and have a set standard in my opinion. And that principle can apply to basically everything, not just this. It has nothing to do with "hating" gays, or wanting to deny rights, but rather having more concrete, set standards of life. Of course, as we become a more liberal society, my "archaic" standards will continue to get phased out in the name of goofy political correctness and an "everybody wins!" mentality.

But, as someone said earlier, it gets ridiculous having laws completely change from one state to the next. So as much as I would rather keep my conservative state conservative, I understand why the federal government steps in sometimes

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[ in response to this article http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-judge-delivers-blistering-rebuke-of-lower-court-sex-assault-decision-1.3694814 regarding a boy being acquitted for raping a girl depite the girl clearly saying no and fighting back ]

Question for the other guys out there:

How many of you had an experience in college where a girl was initially pretty unresponsive or even kind of weakly defensive but suddenly really got into it after you made a few moves? I certainly did, and it wasn't a situation where she was blackout drunk. She just ended up in my bed on some pretext (I think her roommate was hooking up with someone, but she had other options besides climbing into a twin bed with a single guy so it seemed pretty clear what her intent was). Her actions after getting in bed left me pretty confused, she was totally unresponsive to kissing and groping but didn't stop me. However, when I did the right thing she was suddenly all over me. I kind of figured out the boundaries through trial and error. On subsequent nights, I kept pushing and they gradually expanded too (lol).

I wasn't some sort of sexual predator, I was just a shy kid. I read the (nonverbal) signals correctly and it worked out, we dated for a few months after that.

While you might think this isn't related to the case, I think it is. The cultural (and maybe biological) necessity for the male to be aggressive and the female to put the brakes on things tends to really effect how these things go. And us males are stupid, we don't read the signs nearly as well as women hope we do. However we do share stories, and a lot of guys encourage their friends to be aggressive too, to make moves. That's when things can go wrong. It's messed up but it's also the reality.

Once you get older though, it all becomes a lot more natural and easier. You understand how to read signals and you learn what boundaries not to cross. Girls are also better at communicating those boundaries once they've had a few experiences themselves.

That's why, when I hear something like this, I think: here's a guy who's gotten the wrong message, but he's young and hasn't figured this whole dating/sex thing out yet. Make sure he knows that what he did is very wrong, punish him, but nothing that will impact his life long term. He deserves the chance to prove whether he's learned from his mistake.

Scrod #sexist mmo-champion.com

We have talked about the website and the research and other studies regarding false rape claims in several other threads, they are no more than false claims for any other crime. That in and of itself should be telling.
Even if you doubled or tripled the false crime statistics, it does not hold a candle to the amount of actual rapes or reported rapes.

But the problem is that it's very hard to prove rape. If someone shoots and kills someone else, that's a crime. All the police have to do is prove who shot the gun. If two people have sex, it's not inherently a crime unless one didn't consent. And when you have two people entering a room together, drunk (usually), and one person leaves the room saying rape but with muddled memories, and the other person leaves the room saying not rape (also with muddled memories), it's hard to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." And that's what our system is built on.

To look at the other cause celebre of the moment, cop killings, there's a similar dynamic there. Cops are tasked with capturing criminals and they are routinely allowed to use force when they feel like their life is in danger. When they shoot someone it's very hard to prove that their life wasn't in danger.

The issue is really not that people want to see rapists get off. It's that we really can't tell which people are rapists and which aren't, and we don't want to put innocent people in jail. Our system is built on "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" and to me that makes total sense (a system where you have to prove your innocence any time you're accused of something would be a pretty irrational one).

And as to the comment of "she went in the room, she deserved it" (which may be a straw man idk), no, she didn't deserve it. But unfortunately that's a possible consequence of this behavior, which sucks. It's something you want women to be aware of - if it's late at night, and you go into a bedroom with a guy, and he rapes you, you're going to have a very hard time proving it and he'll probably get off. It sucks, but it's the truth. Again, not saying if she does that, she deserves it - things happen to people that aren't deserved all the time, that's kind of a fact of life. It's a possible outcome to be aware of, and honestly, warned about.

And no one knows how many "actual rapes" there are. We do know reported rapes, and we know how many people fill out a survey saying they've been raped and we have no way to verify the veracity of their claims.

This is an especially big issue on college campuses where men and women are, first of all, 18, so still very young and immature, they go away to college where they are living on their own for their first time ever, and then everyone proceeds to get blitzed every Thursday and Saturday, and there's all sorts of sexual activity happening between people who have lowered inhibitions because of alcohol. It's really not a simple issue.

Atsawin26 #homophobia mmo-champion.com

The yelling and smacking is where I think the family is in the wrong here.

They have absolutely every right to not approve or support him if they so choose and he is 18 or older. I'd probably distance myself from my son if he was gay, and if he was 18 or older, he'd need to move out and get his own place. I wouldn't yell or become violent. He has the right to do what he wants with his life after he's 18. And I also have the right to distance myself from him like I would anyone else I don't want to associate with.

But the screaming, and more importantly, the smacking, is totally uncalled for. Histrionics never help anything.

Xaelai #sexist mmo-champion.com

Woman wears clothing that invites men to look at her in a sexual way.
Woman struts her stuff to show off her body in an area that's not so safe.
Woman gets raped.

Sure, the guy is definitely at fault, but sometimes it takes two to make something happen. Maybe if women would dress a bit more conservatively, maybe if women wouldn't be showing off their body so much, maybe if women would watch what they're doing at parties and such, we'd see a lot less rapes.

Do you walk down the streets of the ghettos at night wearing an armani suit, and carrying a briefcase full of cash? Of course not. That'd be inviting a mugger to rob you blind. Do you park a Lamborghini and leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition in some dark parking lot at night? I would hope not.

So why on Earth would you want to wear skimpy clothing that invites men to lust over your body and then strut your stuff at some party where someone can drug you or grab you and make off with you and take what they want?

Doesn't matter if it is a robbery, rape, murder, there's the person who commits the crime... and then there's the person who the crime is committed against.

If the latter invites the former by being an easy target, or an attractive target, then the latter is partially contributing to the crime. Everybody has a responsibility to act maturely and in such a way that they are protecting themselves from such crime. Sometimes crime happens anyways even if you do take all the precautionary measures, but if you do something absolutely stupid and you become the victim of a crime... then yes, you're partially to blame for it.

"A woman shouldn't have to change her clothing because of lustful men!"

Ok, are you also saying that a rich man shouldn't have to change out of his armani suit before walking down the streets in a ghetto at night? lol.

Everybody is responsible for their own personal safety. This includes women and skimpy clothing. There's no reason to wear skimpy clothing other than to get men to lust after them. Is it really THAT big of a surprise when a woman who was wearing that trashy clothing gets raped? Now, obviously, if a woman was not wearing trashy clothing and still got raped... then no, she's not at fault (unless she did something else stupid, like drinking at a party or something) at all.

You can't just disregard personal safety and expect the rest of the world to conform to you. No, you must conform to it. If personal safety means not going down the ghetto streets at night wearing rich clothing and carrying money, then yes... that means you either have to not carry the money, not wear such rich-looking clothing, or take the long way to avoid the ghetto street. If you're a woman wanting to avoid being raped, then yes... you should not be wearing skimpy clothing and perhaps you should be avoiding parties and drinking. Perhaps if the woman in question weren't wearing trashy clothing, men might have a little more respect for her, eh?

zantos,buck008 #fundie mmo-champion.com

so are you claiming it is a right for an admitted pedophile to be allowed to work around children if he so chooses to?

zantos: Yes. They are Not a rapist. They have committed no crimes. In some cases, when someone is afraid of something, exposure is actually the best cure.


buck008 :I'm telling you that you would never know if they didn't tell you anyway. This is a person that has not committed a crime. Do you really want to be in the business of punishing people that aren't actually guilty of anything? I thought we "SJW's" were supposed to be the facist thought police.

Hyve #fundie mmo-champion.com


"An Australian woman who spent eight months in prison in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on charges of having sex outside of marriage after she was gang-raped told her harrowing story to Yahoo 7 News.

What is happening in the UAE isn't acceptable by our standards, and I don't think it is right to imprison victims, but I think it is even more wrong, to impose our morale views and opinions on another nation. They've built their society to support the needs of Western & Middle-Eastern Businesses. If they start to give more to either side, it becomes too extreme for either party.

It isn't fair on the girl, and my views on rapists are fairly extreme themselves (Castration as punishment), but to go around trying to moralise their world is what has started almost every war, battle and conflict in the Middle East. Just leave their world alone. If you've not done deals, worked and been to these places and seen the people, you can't pretend to know how it really works.

I was unable to sit in on an online video meeting with a few people from the Middle East, because they thought I was too pale and untrustworthy. If you don't look right, or they don't trust you, you don't get the deal. The UAE acts as the middle man, they've got the people needed for all your business desires and needs, and you just tell them what you want to be said and done.

They take a cut, get rich and live happily ever after. If they start allowing women to live a westernised lifestyle, then that Middleman Status is gone.

I don't hold to the notion of moral relativism. What the UAE does is reprehensible regardless of whether or not it might be profitable or convenient, and they should be called out for it.

Why? Please explain why our values, morals and way of life is better then theirs? They're the rich, powerful and successful society with less domestic issues.


I'm well aware mate, just saying we are usually not expressing our concerns with these kind of issues sufficiently. I realize thats part of the game as far as diplomacy goes but it doesn't make it any less hypocritical on our parts.

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

I'm not claiming their society is perfect, far from it, but I would much rather live in their society, and then Western Society, and the Billionaires who visit and live there, seem to think the same.

Rudol Von Stroheim #fundie mmo-champion.com

Yeah, unless you were drugged/spiked somehow without your consent and can prove as much you really have no grounds to call rape.

Again, personal accountability is always in play when you're making these choices to get drunk, high, etc. If what results of that wasn't what you wanted because you were too out of your mind to say 'no' or to think better of the situation, that is ultimately, still your fault. Sorry.

I've got no mercy nor sympathy for anyone on this matter. Get your shit together

Eroginous #fundie mmo-champion.com

I think revenge porn is 100% fine. You can't really fault someone if you send them naked pictures/video or let them video tape you having sex, and then they put it on the internet after you break up.

We live in the world of social media sharing, where people talk about how big their shits were or how jealous they are of their friends stuff. Facebook statuses are updated constantly with the most inane garbage that no one should ever know about you, yet it's accessible worldwide by anyone. Tweets are sent out about the most random and mundane shit, as if we're all supposed to be impressed by your run of the mill life and your average Joe opportunities.

We get to see how risque you are with your almost nude instagram pictures! If only you showed a little more skin!

Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for anyone who knowingly allowed nude pictures or video be taken by anyone else, with or without consent.

Hyve #fundie mmo-champion.com

Lets take a look at the Jimmy Saville case. Many of the people complaining about him, were 15 - 18 years old at the time, which back in his day, when everyone was sleeping with anyone, it was perfectly acceptable. You ask any rich man who lived through the 60's -> 80's, everyone was sleeping with everyone, and everyone wanted to!

There wasn't much abuse, there wasn't much neglect. It was all just free loving. Yet, here we are today, screaming about a dead man who fucked a 17 year old who at the time, wanted to sleep with him, because who didn't want to sleep with Jimmy back then!

vizzle #fundie mmo-champion.com

I still don't like this To Catch A Predator bullshit. Some of them are out there looking, yes, but many of them are lured into it.


Thats the point. The real sick person there is the guy who is aggressivly pushing someone to do the deed, breaking down their will, then taking some moral ground for it.
Lol I mean when is the person who provokes someone into a fight ever truly innocent? Why is this any different?

Yep. The better way to stop girls from hooking up with men is for parents to wake up. That "To Catch A Predator" show is disgusting. So many of the victims on that show are average men just trolling around the internet, and a nice hot pie of sexy bait was put down right under their nose, offering themselves up willingly. If there wasn't any bait in the first place doing that, many of those men would have never even considered it. Ruin people's lives just for a tv show. You think that guy will keep his friends, his job, his family when they see that episode? It's horrible.


most states require a 4 year age gap for statutory rape
it's pretty fucked up how many of you in this thread are pro-pedophilia. you disgust me
vizzle: there is no way you feel bad for pedophiles who hook up with people who pretend to be 14 year old girls and you're not one yourself. normal people do not sympathize with grown men who look to fuck 14 year old girls

Nobody here is pro-pedophilia. We're saying that the way they lure these men is horrible.

Give a man a bomb, an empty room, and the person he hates the most in the world, and make him believe that nobody will ever know what happens, and you're sure to see an explosion. Would that man kill under normal circumstances though? Not always.


Do you take issue with police leaving bait cars out to catch thieves? I'm sure most wouldn't consider stealing a car if one wasn't left sitting right out in front of them, right? It doesn't matter whether there's a lure or not; any decent human being wouldn't even entertain the thought of banging a kid.

Considering men have been fucking young girls for all of written history except for the last hundred years or so because people suddenly decided it's taboo, and in some places around the world the legal consent is 14, I really don't understand this giant "OH MY GOD YOU'RE A PEDOPHILE" epidemic plaguing everyone. I'm not a pedophile, I'm not pro-pedophile, I'm anti-rape (of course) and I don't like it when girls are abused, but I think it's silly that all of a sudden we have to change the way humans think despite the fact that men have been doing it for centuries and still do, legally, in parts of the world.


Men have been killing people since the dawn of time. We've also raped women because they were below us. We also kept slaves. Do I need to seriously compile an entire thesis of things we've done up until the last century that we shouldn't have been doing in the first place?

Yes, but killing and raping have always been "bad". Men and girls getting married and raising families together was always normal.


if you think it's ok for a grown man to fuck a 14 year old kid, then you are a pedophile. just because they married off 14 year old kids and traded them for sheep in the dark ages when everyone died at 28 doesn't mean it's ok

You honestly should be infracted for spouting "pedophile" at everyone who has a different opinion from you. If a 14 year old girl wants to do it with a man, I see no reason why she shouldn't. It's the responsibility of the parents to make sure she is educated and knows about it, to make sure she won't do something stupid. Biologically, there is nothing wrong with a girl having sex at that age.


[Bali] 14 year old teen arrested on Drug charges
Australian authorities have confirmed that a 14-year-old boy from NSW has been arrested in Indonesia after allegedly being caught with drugs while on holiday in Bali.The boy was arrested on Tuesday, allegedly in possession of a small amount of marijuana.
He could face a lengthy jail term if convicted of possession charges, which carry a maximum penalty of 12 years in jail.

Can't really feel sorry for him, he knew the consequences when he did it.


HHe was 14, he probably didn't. 12 years? thats irrational. I don't do weed, but I dont even think it should be illegal, while alcohol isn't.

How would you not know that getting caught with drugs is illegal when you're 14? Unless you're completely unaware of the outside world (which I'm going to assume he isn't) a 14 year old, even if he doesn't know the ins and outs of the law completely, would definitely know that drugs = illegal.

Ol scratch #fundie mmo-champion.com

As a guy i understand that theirs nothing wrong with rape its more like theft.

Exactly.

People act like it's the worst crime imaginable. It's no worse than a mugging (with equal chances of either being particular brutal if you resist), and nowhere close to attempted murder let alone outright murder. Hell, the vast majority of the animal kingdom, including early man, relied on it just for procreation.

Of course, we're the only modern species I'm aware of that has females who whine and cry and act like the world is coming to an end during childbirth, too. I can almost attribute that to the "oh, I just noticed I cut myself a few minutes ago, but it's only starting to hurt now that I've noticed it" phenomenon.

But the rape thing? It's pretty ridiculous. It's also amazing how it's largely women who act permanently traumatized by the incident, as if their life isn't capable of continuing on just because someone touched and violated their naughty bits without permission. Yet if it's a dude in prison getting brutally ass-raped? Eh, who cares. He'll certainly get over it soon enough, and probably won't even bitch or moan about it for the rest of their life, and act that if they're ever touched by another human being, they'll burst into flames or something.

Kapadons #fundie mmo-champion.com

never understood the big deal with rape. Oh no, you had a penis inside you. The fucking horror. 2 weeks ago you had a penis inside you and you loved It.

Sex isn't that big of a deal. It's just sex. The issue is people attach all these emotions and feelings around sex. It's in your DNA to fuck. You think the wildebeast gets pissed that bull from the other herd rolls up and dumps some cum into her ?

Ol scratch #sexist mmo-champion.com

You're absolutely right, it is completely unreasonable to put up defenses against most cases of rape. But does that mean it's pointless to try and safeguard against the others?

It's pretty much impossible to do, unless you want to distrust just about any man.

Yeah, because all men are evil rapists just biding their time. Nailed it.

Sorry, but if you want to dramatically lower your chances of getting raped, don't dress like a slut, don't get drunk around complete and utter strangers, and don't go wandering off into quiet little areas with people you don't trust especially in a situation that is otherwise rapey. Guess what! Do those things and chances are you'll be a genuine outlier if and when you do get raped, and in those cases, you will not only get, but deserve, any and all sympathy others have to offer.

It's all about not being a completely and utter moron. That's not "slut shaming" or "victim blaming," it's "quite being a fucktard"ing. Want to drastically lower the chances of having your car stolen? Well don't leave it idling with the door wide open when you run into a store, especially in a neighborhood known for its criminal element. That kind of logic is exactly the same sentiment behind the "don't dress like a slut, dumbass" statements.

Does it mean having your car stolen or being raped isn't still a horrible thing to have happen to you? Nope. Does it mean the criminal doesn't deserve to be prosecuted under the full weight of the law? Nope. However, and most importantly: Does it mean you deserve any sympathy for all but inviting someone to victimize you? Nope. Just like the guy who left his car idling.

Sure, you can do whatever you want. It's your body/your car. But don't expect anyone to feel bad for you when you do something stupid with it, not because you deserve it, but because you shouldn't have been such a fucking moron in the first place.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

At the core, many cases of sexual assault involve 2 people, drunk, going into a room then coming out telling different stories. In the absence of physical evidence or other witnesses that's a really hard crime to prove. It's he said/she said.

Many movements recently have been trying to deal with this by lowering the standard of evidence required to find someone guilty, which is concerning because obviously you can't have accusation = guilt in any reasonable society.

Nerevar #fundie mmo-champion.com

A Norwegian woman has been sentenced to imprisonment for one year and four months in Dubai after she reported a rape.

- The woman reported a rape to the police in Dubai, but was not thought of this. We have been told that she herself was instead sentenced to one year and four months. The judicial system here has obviously taken the information she has given them and meant that she is guilty of anything, says Gisle Meling, a priest in the Seamen's Church in Dubai.


Meh. You live by the laws of the land you inhabit. So if anything, she is the only to blame. Should have known better.

Xaelai #fundie mmo-champion.com

The moment you start victim blaming, is the moment you make it much easier for rapists to actually get away with it. You can recognize that it's dumb to act in a manner that would entice people, but in the end a no means no. I also clearly said 'act', because I don't believe that dress is a valid way of enticing people. Just because a girl is wearing a tiny dress doesn't mean she is trying to entice men.

Praytell why ELSE she'd be wearing skimpy clothing?

I can't think of a single practical use for wearing skimpy clothing other than trying to look sexually pleasing to men. Unless she's Bi or lesbian or something and trying to look nice to other girls, but still. Is there really a need to be walking around in public dressed like that?

Xaelai #fundie mmo-champion.com

Woman steps outside in alluring clothing that shows off half of her body and gets men to drool over her, and then gets raped... uh, yes, she contributed to the rape. Maybe if she hadn't been doing her best to try and get men to look at her and sexually desire her, then maybe she wouldn't have contributed a rapist being pushed over the edge?

Just like the rich guy walking down a ghetto street at night example contributed to the mugging by flaunting his wealth in the poor part of town with no protection or common sense.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

The rapist is the only one causing the rape. Not both perp and victim.

I just don't think it's as black and white as that in many cases. The girl who goes out to a party where many people are hooking up, gets stinking drunk, too stupified to say no, and hooks up with a guy who's also drunk is vastly different from the evil predator who preys on women. I saw situations like this happen between friends of mine - I can remember one particular case where a girl was coming off a breakup and got near blackout drunk, then was basically dragged to bed by a friend of hers and she was pretty pissed afterwards. He clearly had feelings for her, went into the night trying to make his move now that she was single, they both got really drunk, and it ended unfortunately, but that's a volatile mix of circumstances where many people aren't at their best (particularly at age 20). Was that sexual assault/rape? By the letter of the law, probably - she was too drunk to consent. Did he deserve to spend the next 10 years or whatever in jail? Hell no. End of the day it was an asshole thing to do, but they both moved on from it and recognized it for the non-world-ending offense that it was.


The number of people who try to romanticize rape out of what it usually is is disturbing.

So do you think my friend should have gone to jail for a few years? I don't think "romanticize" is the right word here either... I don't see anything romantic about what happened there, it was messy and unfortunate and disappointing, left both sides feeling bad.

And just to be clear, my personal view on rape and enforcement is that it's basically impossible to get the laws right. Life isn't always black and white. The example I provided above illustrates a case where I believe the current standards wouldn't work well.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

Question for the other guys out there:

How many of you had an experience in college where a girl was initially pretty unresponsive or even kind of weakly defensive but suddenly really got into it after you made a few moves? I certainly did, and it wasn't a situation where she was blackout drunk. She just ended up in my bed on some pretext (I think her roommate was hooking up with someone, but she had other options besides climbing into a twin bed with a single guy so it seemed pretty clear what her intent was). Her actions after getting in bed left me pretty confused, she was totally unresponsive to kissing and groping but didn't stop me. However, when I did the right thing she was suddenly all over me. I kind of figured out the boundaries through trial and error. On subsequent nights, I kept pushing and they gradually expanded too (lol).

I wasn't some sort of sexual predator, I was just a shy kid. I read the (nonverbal) signals correctly and it worked out, we dated for a few months after that.

While you might think this isn't related to the case, I think it is. The cultural (and maybe biological) necessity for the male to be aggressive and the female to put the brakes on things tends to really effect how these things go. And us males are stupid, we don't read the signs nearly as well as women hope we do. However we do share stories, and a lot of guys encourage their friends to be aggressive too, to make moves. That's when things can go wrong. It's messed up but it's also the reality.

Once you get older though, it all becomes a lot more natural and easier. You understand how to read signals and you learn what boundaries not to cross. Girls are also better at communicating those boundaries once they've had a few experiences themselves.

That's why, when I hear something like this, I think: here's a guy who's gotten the wrong message, but he's young and hasn't figured this whole dating/sex thing out yet. Make sure he knows that what he did is very wrong, punish him, but nothing that will impact his life long term. He deserves the chance to prove whether he's learned from his mistake.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

My only point is that shoot to kill should not be a cops first priority. How many police shootings have we seen in the past 2 or 3 years. Clearly there is a major problem with training that needs to be addressed.

Well the major issue here is that we don't collect good stats on police shootings. So there's no actual answer. Instead what we have is everyone picking out individual events and making huge generalizations based on them. We're a big country and we're armed to the teeth. Police shootings happen. Whether there are too many? That's a very tough question to answer.

And like sexual assault, the media loves hyping these cases because there tends to be a lot of ambiguity. Police are supposed to use force to subdue criminals, and sometimes the use of lethal force is necessary. It's very hard to tell definitively what happened in a lot of cases, so our "beyond a reasonable doubt" system tends to find people innocent. Likewise, people are supposed to have sex, and when one participant comes out crying rape it's unfortunately a he said/she said situation, and again, "beyond a reasonable doubt" means they get off. I'm mostly ok with this because I don't have an expectation that our system is going to be perfect in all situations - these are the situations where there's generally no great answer and I'm happier staying biased towards keeping people out of jail.