Croquemitaine

@Croquemitaine

Robert Byers #fundie

Linking https://fstdt.com/6J_ making the same deep time denial arguments. And https://fstdt.com/XT_ where it is denied that the author only speculates, claiming that alternatives and science are also only speculation, a false equivalence straw man to claim that all opinions are equal, that there are no established facts.

winner #fundie

While some may speculate on what visible object could have been described, there is no need to be one, because it was a common mythological trope, like adapted from zoroastrian tradition, with a focus on astronomy and sacred lights. It's similar to the later virgin birth story, also common in hero or deity mythology. Some also speculate how in a patriarchy, a story may have been promoted to explain a pregnant unmarried woman, that may risk facing the savagery of stoning. Such also happens today, sometimes also by people hoping to have special status in superstitious cultures believing that a woman can be pregnant from a crocodile and that those are holy...

Because there is so much obvious mythology attached to Jesus in the gospels, some consider Jesus to be mythical. Others say he was likely an influential man, who was reappropriated by others for their mythology at last 70 years later and more. This is plausible, considering how others still do it today and did it for tourism with dubious relics. We also know that Christmas is reappropriated.

Robert Byers #fundie

Stars being larger and more massive than rocky planets like Earth, there being ~10^24 stars in the observable universe, imagine what 1/3 of that hitting the Earth would do. Other than the fact that they're many light years away. "No, the Bible says that there were only 3 stars!" won't do. A single star would be enough to destroy Earth, even if it didn't touch it. Even ours, the Sun, will, in more than 1 billion years. "Falling stars" are not stars, BTW.

Robert Byers #fundie

afdave #fundie

Time hole for the flood god. Time denial, trying to cast it away. Geology and paleontology courses needed. Not only will you learn that there never was a universal flood since humans appeared, you would also learn how sediment layers accumulate and how we date them. As well as their order. You would understand why an old natural rock formation claimed to be the mythical ark could never be that either. 1800s "flood geology" was not science. Also read on photosynthesis, the way much of the accumulated energy actually originates from solar energy, chemically transformed. That too, allows to realize that it couldn't happen overnight. Read on radiometric dating, and not just C14 against which common straw men are pushed.

Robert Byers #fundie

Only a problem for creationists who claim that ancient ignorant mythology must be right. Some will attempt to compromise, accepting that evolution takes place up to some point. They still deny the actual time scales and the common origin, speciation, abiogenesis. And they must add to and remove from scripture what they need and find inconvenient (something forbidden by scripture). Just admit that it's not science and the origin myth of an ancient people, it explains it much better. And embrace reality.

AfDave #fundie

afdave #fundie

Along with Specified Complexity and Irreducible Complexity of pseudoscientific creationism, Special Water? To replace Earth at the center of the universe and justify it using a verse of old mythology? Denying all of the strong evidence of stellar water, against geocentrism, etc?

afdave #fundie

My immediate question was similar to Bastethotep's: scientist in what? We don't usually expect political scientists or theologians, or English doctors to teach humanity about astrophysics and astronomy, especially if they don't know of spectroscopy and push grandiose conspiracy theories about NASA...

cutegecko3 #fundie

Jake M #fundie

Robert Byers #fundie

Homo Sapiens Sapiens vs Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis, yes we're closely related and there is even evidence suggesting that the ancestors of europeans have interbred with them before they ceased to exist as an extant separate subspecies. Contrary to false claims of mythology, there's no reason to believe that birth was never painful for mammals, who have plenty of sensitive nerves, as well as evolutionary reasons like large brains and bipedality, for it to be intense in women. Creationist or not, facts are facts. Snakes didn't suddenly lose their legs for having told a woman that their creator tricked them with magical trees either. Deceptive lures that an all powerful, bored entity, playing chess with them, could predict they would eat...

Jake M #fundie

When science is alien magic, it's easier to deny what it has actually accomplished, like the discovery of our actual origins. And to keep entertaining fairy tales instead. Reality denial in favor of extreme ideologies. UFO millenarist conspiracy theories are common among anti-government extremist groups. Also a common theme to promote racism, denying and reappropriating impressive monuments from ancient human civilizations.

Robert Byers #fundie

Calilasseia's hypothesis is not impossible and I don't know the situation, but I too can provide informed speculation about another possibility. High control groups (cults) and patriarchy can result in this. It's so important to pretend that women deserve special punishment. Then there's active indoctrination, also targetting the youth, the segregation and the obstruction of actual independent education. The last sentence suggests an intent to shame the subjugated victim "stay in your place, breed my seed and shut up"...

Then the mention of evolution is obviously because it's also the denial of what science discovered about our origins. To affirm the origin myth story, not only biology will be rejected and misrepresented with straw men, but also geology and astronomy. They've proven that man was not the center of the universe, humbling those who claim to have special "divine" status.

Robert Byers #fundie

Jake M #fundie

Jake M #fundie #dunning-kruger

boneyard bill #fundie

And we sample surface and ocean temperature, average them, calculate the global temperature. And the levels of greenhouse gases. We collect the samples and draw the curves. We take in consideration natural cycles. Observations suggest strong evidence of global warming and strong evidence that emissions are a main forcing. Tipping points are evaluated. Predictive models show that urgent mitigation is necessary.

Jake M #fundie

"you even believe" - False equivalence, accepting facts, rather than affirming claims, is not faith. Consult phylogenetic trees, learn about how they were constructed. Read about cladistics, too. And critical thinking, the scientific method...

Robert Byers #fundie

Correction: while there will always be directions and details where science will explore and learn and apply its self-correcting processes, it is unlikely for well established facts supported by overwhelming evidence to suddenly be discovered to be completely false and irrelevant. Especially when the alternative is incredible ingnorance and an ancient origin myth. Uncertainty propaganda may work to indoctrinate some people, but will never change the scientific consensus. To change it, you need to provide better explanations that account for all existing knowledge on the topic, to publish your method and evidence in the relevant peer-reviewed journals and for other scientists to evaluate and replicate your work. The way science already works, even if you falsely pretend that its conclusions are ideologically motivated and dictated, a fallacious projection of religion, your own business.

For instance, when the genetic code was discovered, a new scientific theory of evolution was needed, the Modern Synthesis, taking into account the incredible new evidence and data, something that Darwin had no access to when writing The Origin of Species. Unlike for "holy prophets", Darwin did not dictate a creed preventing knowledge to improve. Phylogenetic trees have been updated, new evidence of common descent with modification was discovered, new details about how speciation happens, etc. The new information did not falsify the tested hypothesis, the fact, that we have evolved, it only confirmed it further.

To deny that evolution is a well established fact, you are pushing false conspiracy theories about science and scientists, like that they would be ignoring important evidence, when your arguments have long been refuted, or are outright ignored, considered irrelevant. Again, preaching to crowds will not affect a scientific consensus based on evidence. But it may mislead the gullible, the motive behind creationist indoctrination efforts (other than the fear of death).

SSJPunk's comment is epic.

Robert Byers #fundie

If you carefully read the Genesis book, you will find no such invitation to explore other planets and space. It seems that like about our origins, the authors were ignorant about the world and of space. It's also obvious that the worldview was a human-centered universe, not even knowing about other continents. It is easy to understand why. Does it mean that we shouldn't explore? Of course not, even if many creationists actually claim that. What was the purpose of the origin myths, the text's emphasis on lineages and natalism? Nationalism and the power justifications of a small elite. Exploitation and war.

hzcummi #fundie

So you admit that they're trying to twist old mythology. You then claim that it's not mythology but was scientific, and just like them, make another ridiculous appeal to it, doctoring it to pretend that it's history and science. Yet there was no science as we know it back in the Iron age, when those origin myths were written and compiled. It was never scientific and never will be. Science can help to put old scriptures in their perspective and context, however. For instance, we know today that there was no universal flood and that the Genesis flood story was adapted from an older one, before that monotheist movement that borrowed it. We know that moving all animals out of their habitat to a wooden boat, too big to hold together, too small to contain them, then displacing them back out there, is ridiculous. And that there is not enough genetic diversity with 8 individuals to repopulate humans, and that giving life to golems made out of clay with magic breath is impossible. We even discovered many facts about our origins. Denying them in favor of mythology is doing exactly what you were apparently condemning.

Jake M #fundie

"And then there was a bunch of nonsense that assumes Helena Blavatsky was the first to invent the seance...... spirits were known for thousands of years by many cultures. Therefore YHVH, Genesis, Adam, and all that. And the I-Ching."

Jake M #fundie

Fundies indeed say the darndest things. We are great apes and mythology was man made, just like the ridiculous fundamentalist arguments. Evolution is a discovery made when observing the natural world, it's not invented, even if humans are at work to understand it. Unlike deities, that are invented by humans, imaginary beings. Confused enough to mix up Abrahamic tradition, Chinese divination and biology.

Awesome parody by Jon.

Blood of our Savior #fundie

Knowledge and scientific facts are neither religious nor ideological or political, meaning that the original poster is politicizing it. A straw man of "Atheists" is put up, a fundie redefinition, for all people who don't reject knowledge. Actual atheists simply don't believe in deities or the supernatural, so an actual understanding of our origins, from the observation of the natural world, cannot be religion to them either. Many religious people accept the facts that have been discovered by the secular universal enterprise that is science.

But the last part of the post is evidence that the poster has no intention to learn better, only to impose and threaten. That's not what actual education, which is also being demonized here, is about. And of course, physics, astronomy and biology courses make no statements about the divine or religion. Why is knowledge demonized then? The premises of the poster's ideology are so weak that they are recognized to be threatened by discoveries about the world. There is a manipulation, exploitative agenda at play, benefitting from fear and ignorance.

jet112 #sexist

So much confusion. Incels claim that they can't breed because they're inferior monsters. They cultivate a culture of hate and jealousy. They claim that only "chads", an "alpha-male" stereotype adapted to humans, have access to all females. But they also claim that women only date chads for entertainment and sex, that men of status are old and ugly, but really receive most of their attention and father their kids, because of money. Or because young girls want fatherly lovers, or whatever floats their boat at the moment. All those arguments to deny that they're usually normal looking people and that people have varying tastes, that they usually fund families with people they trust after forming a relationship. And to deny that they need therapy... Instead, many get radicalized online and intensify their hatred and delusions, cultivating the unhealthy frustrations. In the end, the opposite sex is replaced by straw men and objects of hate, to a point where constructive approaches are bound to fail. Some incels self-fulfill their prophecy and become monsters and dangers to others and society.

Dust #fundie

Fundamentalists who want to entertain an illusion of the world where humans are the center of the universe, commonly actively deny and fight actual knowledge that proved otherwise. It is very convenient for exploitative leaders to radicalize and isolate their victims, by turning them away from knowledge and stripping away their ability to reason. Deep reasoning is also learned, so this may also mean denying their access to proper education... The original poster's idea of "fact" is not even about them, they've missed the boat.

Malorie #fundie

Humans never were "all science". It was technically possible for science to be practiced 300k years ago, as Homo Sapiens back then had brains like ours. Nonetheless, other than curiosity and our ability for symbolic language, science is not natural, it's a method that needed to be developed and improved, it also depends on an industry and technology that gradually evolves. For much of human history, science was rudimentary and industries focused on what was needed to hunt, farm, cook, stay warm, habitation and war. Culture transmitted the limited knowledge. The invention of writing and mathematics, of agriculture, were milestones from which some people had the opportunity, the time and ability to think and write, transmitting more. Still, a lot of transmitted information was that of elites, their law codes, legends, their war propaganda. Historians still had little access to information about our past and origins for millenia. Decent origins science is very recent, so is the actual scientific method that surpassed natural philosophy (we can also consider that it has embraced reality at that point, taking into account human delusions and fallacies). The industrial revolution happened. Powerful scientific theories (models to explain observations and collect working hypotheses and data, formulas, etc.) have been developed and improved. The authors of the origin myths some people still entertain as history had no access to such knowledge. They apparently also lacked access to divine inspiration, even if some of the authors claimed that it existed or that they were inspired. If they did, their "divine sources" apparently lied to them, just like brains are unreliable, with their delusions.

nautical999 #fundie

Doubting Thomas asked:

Is there some kind of software I can download to exorcise the demons? Is that wall you're talking about a firewall?

There's always "Mind Guard", the "Psychotronic waves blocker" for the Amiga, if you have a real aluminium m68k CPU (parodic jokeware): https://zapatopi.net/mindguard/

Dean Saxton #fundie

Phillip-George == Out-of-place artifact

While various other comments were interesting in context, I often found Darlene to recall the important point where in patriarchal misogynist cultures, policing for subjugation includes making sure that public places be unwelcoming, dangerous as well as promoted as being dangerous to women. This may mean the systemic harassment of women who are not accompanied by a male, no matter how dressed they are. Victim blaming and rape culture are part of the same vicious circle. It's very similar to other forms of extremism like race supremacism where mobs want to take control of the streets so that others be intimidated and their freedom chilled. Part of the solution to those evils is promoting and ensuring safe mixed spaces in general society. In such places when going out at night, it's also less likely to be exclusively drunk men everywhere, a nightmare for everyone. Extremists who are fighting against such safe places, especially when in societies where they already exist today, can be rightfully considered to be harassers, or sometimes even promoting and enacting a form of terrorism. Another example of this is the harassment of people attending obstetric clinics. In authoritarian far-right regimes, the press is oppressed, using similar fabricated pressures.

In this case, slut shaming, victim blaming, abuse enticement, harassment of public places. It's not just personal expression, it's an encouragement for the crowd to misbehave and threaten, terrorize women. Troubling the peace.

This reminded me of "Anjem Choudary" ( https://fstdt.com/2585 ).

Edit/Adding:
Extremely ironic: As shown above there is a lot of similarity between Saxton and some islamist extremists. But in the following video, he promotes general islamophobia, claiming that Muslims are all rapists who want women to be fully covered, which appears to be projection (just like him). Of course, just like not all Christians are that extremist, neither are all Muslims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LBr-AXWoYw

But it's not so surprising, as he also seems to be a white supremacist...

Philosophers of Rape #fundie

Summary: "They no longer deserve to be raped when they have been raped enough into submission."

If I had a daughter and she was a filthy harlot, I would correct her myself. In addition, I would want as many guys as possible to correct her.

So nothing more than another evil human trafficking pimp, into slavery and child abuse. And promoting organized crime and rape culture (not philosophy).

The Philosophers of Rape #racist #sexist #psycho

While the "nigger rapists" is a racist straw man, it serves to posit "corrective rape" as something moral. In reality, it's still primitive, misogynist, evil savagery. The ideology is of abuse and slavery and this is the promotion of terrorism to enforce it. Human dignity and human rights are demonized to justify this evil. It's a vicious circle of hate and abuse.

"Joe Biden" #fundie

Apparent far-right disinformation, attempting to move the Overton window in the direction of fascism. Everything that's not far-right is smeared with paranoid propaganda and descriptions are maliciously confused. Just like the extremist website it's from, falsely describing as moonbats everything that's not far-right. We often see it as "left-wing insanity", which ironically projects insanity (the top-down imposition of the alienation required to sustain abusive elite justification ideology) upon others.

Andrea Widburg #homophobia #transphobia

Again, the best rule of thumb is that people for whom sex is the central aspect of their life are (a) not living a mentally or physically healthy lifestyle and (b) shouldn't be around children.

That's projection, isn't it. From the ones who constantly obsess and whine about the alleged private lives of others and even want to inspect genitals.

It seems to be a censorship law, the kind you find in rogue authoritarian regimes. Educators are people and they have lives. Education is supposed to be guided by programs and is not about the teacher's political activism. But this enforces a state's own ideology, ignorance, that it has no legitimate business to dictate. It also violates the constitutional requirement of the separation of church and state.

Lisa Renee #crackpot #ufo #magick #conspiracy

Athanasias #fundie

I admit that this is quite entertaining. It's also a question based on a false premise, an imaginary being in an Iron Age origin myth, claimed to have been the first human, created supernaturally. The fall is even a justification to attempt to explain the fact that humanity is not as simple and utopic as a paradise with everlasting life. Secular academic theology includes relevant theology while trying to understanding how those human traditions formed, rather than affirming mythology. This also means that any speculation about Adam's flatulence is not even that, more a type of mental masturbation. Some people are lost in irrelevant theological questions all their lives, even the most ridiculous ones. Tragically, it's the same with some who get lost in metaphysical idealism and "we can never know anything" philosophical mazes. They've never had access to, or they have lost, or were denied, the way that could eventually lead them to reality. Or they really want to entertain fantasy to escape it. Afterall, athanasy is the fantasy of immortality...

Cameron #fundie

Begins from the false premise that it was designed, to entertain the same flawed hasty a-priori conclusions that it was designed. The "Darwinian mechanisms", on the other hand, have been discovered by observation, not invented. It is normal that ancient humans had little knowledge of the natural world and their writings do demonstrate that. It is ridiculous to deny this. That is why YECs need to constantly be drowned with reality-denial propaganda and scheming, they must be as ignorant as Iron age people were, to be more easily manipulated and exploited.

time4me #fundie

Entertaining the god of the gaps by cherry picking what is convenient, ignoring the rest, to attempt to consolidate old human mythology with knowledge that contradicts it, denying that the mythology is symbolic and should be put in its Iron Age context. Ignorance about not only science and its discoveries, but also about the origins and compilation of the scriptures. I assume that the poster means theistic evolutionist when using "Biblical Evolutionist", a common Christian point of view where mythology is understood to be distinct from science, scientific discoveries about the natural world do not need to be denied, while still entertaining a belief in god and an afterlife.

To take the flood myth literaly, one has to ignore its previous polytheistic origin, as well as entertain incredible magical fantasies, while rejecting or ignoring all the evidence for an old earth and the lack of evidence for an actual universal flood, all the evidence of gradual evolution, etc. Even human history. A minimal understanding of ecology makes it completely untenable. "Flood geology" is not science either.

FreddieD #fundie

The "angry at god atheist" sterotype can sometimes include a part of truth but is actually a straw man, a false justification, like the lie "atheism is the justification of sin". The anger could only result while still a believer, or still agnostic, or not having moved on yet, when still in a crisis of faith. It is something else to recognize that if a deity existed, it would not be moral or worthy of worship anyway, a conclusion that can be achieved with reason that's not clouded by emotions. I used to be a believer and today, any anger is aimed at stupidity and human manipulation, there is no imaginary being to scapegoat. I don't even resort anymore to prayers of the style: "please help me and show me evidence of your existence, please lead me to the truth", even though I sometimes did in the past. It's not even a reflex to pray when I panic about something anymore.

The next paragraph is libel, bearing false witness, claiming that someone who simply arrives at the logical, intellectually honest conclusion that a particular deity is unlikely to exist, would somehow be at war against it. How could they if they're simply detached from it, understanding that it's an idea and the origin and purpose of such imagination? The vultures picking up the unprepared is war mongering nonsense and dehumanization. I don't care that you attend church and don't go there. Replying to the promotion of nonsense and disclosing its fallacies is not preying.

It then follows by a type of affirmative creed, as if atheists needed to constantly repeat a special anti-god prayer everyday. Evidence that a straw man of atheists and hate speech is promoted, because again, you don't need that to not believe. Instead, it's simple: evidence is needed to believe.

More libel is promoted, claiming that atheists are anarchists. Which really exposes the intent of the poster, to impose what they consider "law" on everyone. And to deny that atheists may be ethical beings who also understand that society needs law codes. This is also the denial that in many modern societies the law is already secular.

The last paragraph exposes the intent, manipulative segregation to exploit, dividing the victims by making them reject "them", dehumanizing others. This is malice and harmful and this constatation is not libel, as well as supported by evidence in the text. Lastly, this is not only about atheists, but the straw man called "atheists" that is presented and scapegoated.

"ProperJob" asked: Is the idea of others having a different viewpoint to yourself so damn frightening?

This post indeed aims to make it very frightening. It looks like intent to me.

SilenceinMadness #fundie

So you admit that asserting a claim is enough for you, but it's not the standard of evidence and reliability that others usually expect. It is also harmful, because it will lead to awkward circumstances where you will say silly things and sometimes face reactions to that you may not find comfortable. When others roll their eyes or decide to suddenly be quiet instead of arguing, it's not because they're evil. Around me I know some people who suffer of social anxieties that are reinforced by this kind of stubborn indoctrination. They're in the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. Sometimes false beliefs also harm in other ways. Some reject medicine when they need it, or embrace harmful practices. Elitism can also encourage the abuse of others, deemed "less worthy".

Archie the Preacher #fundie

"I received some Viagra spam again, 'evidence' of Christian persecution! Satan wants to choke me with a thousand cocks!"

But speaking of defaced websites, attacks are much more systematic today, even. Sites are constantly borbarded with all kinds of attacks using huge vulnerability databases for many off-shelf applications. PHPBB was popular and had its share of vulnerabilities, other than misconfiguration by webmasters and sysadmins. PHP itself had huge security holes, so did common SQL database servers. Operating systems often come misconfigured and bloated. No black magic by Satanists needed.

It's not impossible to be targetted, but this really sounds like a conspiracy theory intended to inflate one's self-importance claim as well as to enforce a delusory persecution complex, as part of manipulative rhetoric.

christianonnet #fundie

Projection, denial. There will be no proof offered on a forum, which is not where scientific experiments take place. But they have been done before, elsewhere. Do you have the capacity to evaluate what information sources are reliable or not? Can you distinguish scientific consensus from dictated dogma? If you cannot, that's your own problem. If others can and post the evidence, if you still deny it, it's still your own problem. The rest of the world will keep moving on and you will be the one claiming to be persecuted by the world for being left behind. That's also of your own making. If someday you realize that some have misled you and that this harmed you, contributing to this failure, you should consider them responsible for that, not the world, not science, not education and knowledge. Manipulative religious segregation is harmful. A honest believer should not ask you to reject the strongest established knowledge, like simple facts about physics.

iowan15 #fundie

Slippery slope panic propaganda. Denial of the fact that secular is the opposite of cult, using psychological projection. That the separation of the church and state necessity allows by design the practice of religion, without allowing a particular cult to oppress the others. Frivolous demonization of society and those outside of the poster's cult with conspiracy theories, evidence that the constitutional clause is right and mandatory and that the poster's ideology is concerning, potentially abusive.

JPFH #fundie #crackpot

The poster has obviously been misled and is trying to mislead, while pretending that the rest of the world have been misled, also pushing a straw man of science to burn. The blind leading the blind. "Creationist scientist" does not exist as a science field and creationists pretending to use science to support their religious arguments is called pseudoscientific apologetics. Some biologists are religious and some of them may hold personal creationist views. It does not change the scientific consensus supported by overwhelming evidence that we have evolved. Or the fact that science does not begin with a-priori personal conclusions and it could not be effective and practical if it relied on doctrine rather than observation, falsifiable hypotheses, etc. You will not find a reputable biology journal promoting creationist mythology and it is not their role.

Alexandra Bruce #wingnut #quack #conspiracy

The first sentence is enough, using false premises, to dismiss the whole post as malicious disinformation. A few words later there is evidence suggesting it also includes Russian war disinformation. When reaching the end it is clear that the poster has been completely alienated, or at the very least, promotes total alienation. Incredibly, it ends with "Babylon Matrix", something that would not be taken seriously, like if it was a silly joke. Tragically, it actually indicates how extreme this fascist bullshit is. What is very clear is that this systematically demonizes all reliable information sources and expert bodies.

:The-Great-Work. #crackpot #wingnut #magick #conspiracy

That's like the old white vs black magic. But in reality, neither work. And actual science and medicine are not religion, not magic. When technology is used to "effect change according to will", it is predictable and reliable and can be depended on and that rests on knowledge, not ideology or wishthinking. Satanism is part of the Christian tradition. I also see anti-government extremist conspiracy theories of the NWO type here. And accusations that are projection.

It’s no longer conspiracy “theory” when you finally begin to see the patterns, tactics, and methodologies being used

"My bullshit is evidence" is just more bullshit and sounds more like fall in insanity. The reason is also because no evidence is needed to make up and attack scapegoats, malice and lies are enough.

Working Man Gamer #fundie

Politicization of science, using grammar taken out of context. Uncertainty propaganda. Biological evolution is not controversial in science. Apparent obsession on the part of the poster, where encountering a word they apparently invested so much effort into denying, disturbs them. Does not sound healthy or family friendly.

ethang5 #homophobia

"My favorite scapegoat is responsible for all my personal failures even when it's obviously because of my own stupidity. I decided that the existence of some people I hate pollutes my existence, so I can promote hate speech about them to pollute their existence."

If the above excuse is true, about "Christians -> Gays", it is a false equivalence. Some Christians do promote hate speech and harm against people they hate, including the LGBTQ+. A gay person not wanting to be persecuted for their natural tendency and loving someone of the same sex is not persecution of Christians, because it so happens that some Christians want to persecute gay people. Many believers are gay and vice-versa. If what other people do in private without harming other people (or rumors of it because it may just be that) makes you want to suppress them, your ideology is problematic and harmful and your target is persecuted: as the aggressor, your "persecution" is a delusory complex, conditioning-imposed obsessional mental self-torment imposed by a manipulator.

ethang5 #fundie

A number of great replies here. This is like "I used to be an evolutionist who believed in random chance [...] [promote mythology instead]", which ironically includes the evidence that they never understood evolution. It's possible for someone not to be a believer and to convert to a religion. It's even possible for someone to be particularly mentally vulnerable at a certain point and to become a victim of opportunistic peachers and the exploitation of their cult. But it is unlikely for someone who can reason that there is no evidence for the existence of deities, to suddenly claim that they were fools and now know better. Especially when they claim that the fantasy they are embracing is reality. If that was true, why would most people not suddenly be shown plausible evidence and convert? Why would there be so many flavors of the fantasy? That humans universally seek comfort in delusions is not evidence that the delusions are real. This is also something that science can explain without appeal to the supernatural. The preacher's argument also suggests that some people are privileged to have been "shown the light", that perhaps something is wrong with the others who seek and don't find it. When in reality the most intellectually honest could become atheists and that it does not mean sinful, evil, the justification of sin, etc. Those apologetics are just other stories to entertain the fantasy and for "us and them" manipulative rhetoric.