I don't think terms like "moral" and "immoral" can be applied to God. Perhaps to "a god", in the sense of a supranatural entity that has much power and demands respect/obedience. But that's not what we're discussing - we're discussing the Christian conception of God as creator and sustainer of all. I simply can't see how such a God can be thought of (especially by His creatures!) as moral or immoral...
[... you're telling me that God can kill us any time and he still won't be evil. You don't see anything wrong with that?]
Not at all.. What's wrong with that?
["Thou shalt not kill." What does God do in the Bible?]
*Thou*, not *I* - God was telling *us* what to do; what makes you think he was also binding Himself?
[On God's actions in the bible.]
On what basis (biblical evidence) can you prove it to be unjustified mass murder?
[Referring to the global flood which violently ended the lives of billions of men, women, children, kittens, and everything on the planet. 'Why are you still justifying mass murder?']
Isn't there a difference between mass murder and the simultaneous enactment of justice?
[There is no denying, Reverend, that God metes out his 'justice' with pain and suffering on a grand scale...]
just because God's acts are mighty and violent (in a holy sense of justice) does not mean either he or his law is to be looked down upon... in the same way that both the President, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Chief of Intelligence, the Supreme Court, etc. deal with matters on a much grander scale than your local Barney Fife.
[If he already knew some people were going to abuse the "gift of free will", then why did he create them anyway?]
So that His own would recognise the foolish limits of our "free will" compared to His Eternal sovereignty and joyfully acknowledge Him as Creator and King.
[So you see nothing wrong with genocide?]
Nor with capital punishment if the true God commands it. It is wrong otherwise, such as when a false god like Allah (or someone in his name)commands it.
[So everything your God does is right, even mass murder? Why?]
Because the evidence alluded to in the previous posts shows that he is the true God. It also shows he is good, loving, and righteous.
[You can't be serious. Are you saying that all of them, including babies/children, were "guilty of sin" and deserving of God's wrath?]
Can you prove that babies and children are 100% innocent? Is there not a difference between the cry of a baby who cries because he is hungry and a baby who cry reveals he is upset because he did not get milk in the timeframe he wanted it? Is not a baby snake sometimes as poisonous as an adult one, though outwardly to some it may appear so small and unassuming? Can you prove that age and understanding are the best criteria for determining the nature of the individual? Have you ever tested the heart of infants, or children? At what point does an innocent baby become a sinner? Who says that age is a criteria for responsibility? I suppose you would never correct or discipline a child since there is no possibility they could ever do any wrong? (If they could wrong you, they what could stop them from offending God, whose just command it is that they should honor you?)
[after preaching about the infallibility of the bible and then admitting he hasn't read most of it]
I'm being berated here. I have read the Bible but not the whole thing from begining to end. I do have a job you know. I read parts of chapters and verses and canont remmeber eveyrthing. It's ahrd when you've got to keep runing around all day.
[Witches, demons, and satan are equally fictional]
Well the most powerful people in the world seek demons and devils
Here even Bush, here he is a Pagan rights in California BANISHING "CARING" gosh and I always though caring was a good thing, seems our leaders don't have time for it.
[Did any part of "Internet Infidels" tip you off that "godliness" might not be an important standard of behavior here?]
thats no reason not to be godly
Take away the water from your body and what is left? 7% of you is made of material other than H2O. reduced to innate matter would it surprise any one that it is mineral and mineral compounds? Calcium carbon sodium etc. Grind this up real fine and put a little water back in it and you have clay!
But the bible has always been the book upon which witnesses swear they are telling the truth. So it's been accepted as a book of truth in a court of law.
The sun, for example, has to be exactly where it is in order to give the appropriate amount of heat and light to the earth. If it were one fraction of a centimeter farther away or closer away, life couldn't exist on the earth.
Part of the reason evolution was offered was they were looking for more sex, and didn't like Christianity telling them about morality.
Abortion rulings are all purely political. It's obvious that the practice is evil and immoral. All pregnant women should be forced to carry to term no matter what the circumstance. No exceptions for age, health, circumstances of conception, or anything. Any woman found to have aborted her child should be charged with murder and put to death along with any one who assisted her in her crime. Also, adoption and abandonment should not be options for unwanted children either. Mothers should be forced to raise their child and take care of it as they are the natural mother and can provide it with better care than anyone else. A child has an absolute right to be born and raised by its mother. Just like with child support, the rights of the child supersede any rights of the mother. End of story.
If you're suffering from homosexuality you need to know that it doesn't have to stay that way. You can get out. Homosexuality is caused by demonic possession and oppression. To be free of homosexuality you have to get rid of the demons. Some of you probably already suspect that you are afflicted by demons. You hear voices in the night, see strange shadows out of the corners of your eyes, feel odd things when walking about, and many other symptoms. God can free you from these demons right now. If you want to be free from these demons just scream out at the top of your lungs "Get away from me you foul demons!!!!! I command you in the almighty name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to leave me alone!!!! Be gone you evil demons!!!! Be gone!!!!!". Do this whenever you feel a demonic presence. If you do this, read scripture regularly and start attending church you'll be surprised at what a drastic turn your life will take.
THe leftsists in this country are having a meltdown, and if Hitlery is EVER elected president, you better have those guns loaded and ready, because her little shock troopers are gonna come after your ass.
She knows what's good for you, whether you like it or not...
Just think Waco, times 1000, oh yeah, Hitlery will have a ball with all that power....
What I mean is that ultimately because propositional communication was invented by God and in fact the persons of the Godhead have been communing with each other for an eternity with language, words and concepts have ultimate objective meanings. IOW, there is an objective definition and criteria of persons. This is irrespective of the arbitrary and false definitions of persons that various governments and ethicists may come up with. This is true of all language. This is why cursing is condemned by God. When you tell someone to "go to Hell" this is a very serious statement because there really is a hell and etc.
I believe that the God of the Bible created the universe because the Bible provides an historical account that makes this claim and I think the historical account is valid.
(later in the post)
My guess is that you probably accept many things that people tell you without first verifying that they are true.
['There is as much evidence for leprechauns as for gods.']
How can it not be silly to replace God with leprechauns since God interacts with me but leprechauns do not?
An atheist is kind, generous, helpful in order to advance his agenda which is to destroy people by turning them away from God. Thus, the atheist is, at heart, a thief and always a thief (unless God changes him).
In the Bible it states that ocne adam and eve sinned they realized they were naked and covered up. They didn't want to be seen naked. Now if this never happened what is the purpose of wearing clothes?
Well, let me ask you a question.
If there really is no evidence for creationism, why would creationists insist there is? They can find evidences of the biblical flood and other such Bible claims, but why do they? Could it be because there is evidence? If there was ABSOLUTELY NONE, why do they make good cases about the age of fossils and such things?
['have you considered the similarities between your God and the Mafia yet?']
Well, it is not God's fault if we burn forever. We have our chance on earth to believe or disbelieve. It is his punishment. This is like prison for murderers.
"In light of clear similarities in the morphological function and phenotype of the tail in relation to the hitherto ascribed vestigal [or 'rudimentary'] organ in Homo Sapiens, we have arrived at the conclusion that this organ is proof of the morphological evolution from Aegyptopithecus to modern man."
LMFAO! If this is the case, then why don't chimps have tails?
muHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha!!!
Evolutionits are so goofy!
I think we should kill all the christians/theists and invent a kind of morality that is beneficial to everyone.
Consider yourself lucky your ancestors were converted at swordpoint. The Atheists murdered about 6 million of my ancestors in the gas chambers during WWII. They had no such lucky break.
[On the "Crying" Virgin Mary in Sacramento, 'For men who have been seeing hoaxes like this for years, an explanation is impossibly easy.']
Hoax? You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all the time. Do you think that Christians are morons who will believe everything and anything they are told?
[On the slaying of the Gentiles]
In all honestly, it was a better decision to slaughter these children and bring them to Heaven than allow them to be raised in an environment of pagans.
What could be more wonderful than consuming the flesh and blood of the divine?
If Christ were a psychologist, he'd be the greatest of all time.
If I were an atheist...
I'd live a life of debauchery and then commit suicide.
murder is bad, but there are other sins that are worse; homosexuality or adultery, for example; these were stopped with capital punishment in the bible, but our laws have gotten away from God nowadays; thats why our society is suffering so much; sin is rampant.
['If the Bible documents a "myriad of miracles", then the Odyssey documents the existence of Pallas Athene.']
science fiction movies are not a good source for religious education
I'd do whatever He told me to do, if I had the courage and faith to do it.
Just to save you some writing, this would include slaughter, drinking blood, filing my teeth down to pointy fangs, and chopping off [my wife] Fisher's head with a Guns N' Roses C.D.
[posted one day after the London suicide bombings] If there were no fundamentalism, nor any belief in God, there would be murder, crime, brutality, and no mercy all about us—in every corner. Standards of morality would plunge to the ground, as billions would no longer feel the need of responsibility to maintain moral purity. Blood would be running down every street.
Birds evolved from dinosaurs!!! REally??? The Bible says birds were created FIRST!!! Where is the concept of Evolution in all this? Dinosaurs finally got smaller, and grew wings that couldn't work? What sort of brainwashing does it take to believe this stuff???
I think that the 'poor innocent Black people' did suffer as consequence of the injustice and arrogance of the prevailing system in the society, which Katrina did help to expose and show its hypocrisy to world. The administration that was claiming to be the champion of the rights for the blacks in the world is now exposed as the oppressor and guilty of injustice at home. This will probably help the cause of the blacks in their struggle to gain their rights in their own nation. Why blame Allah for the wrong-doing of others?
I think that you are trying to divert the course of the discussion from its topic. If you think that you have a better explanation for Katrina you can try it by intiating a new thread of your own.
Sure Allah did send his scripture and protected it for fourteen centuries so that people may take heed, they instead started to insult his scripture, now that he is unleashing his forces it is time for the people to bow their heads and listen.
Besides, the human race is engaged in very serious crimes against the humanity and is largely indifferent or even rebellious against the God’s guidance and therefore certain warning signals is the minimum possible response that can be expected.
In Guantanamo toilets were used to abuse the holy Qur'an a few months from this day.
Katrina did recently strike very vast residential areas converting them into a sort of huge toilet forcing the residents to flee in panic or stay and suffer.
Both of the events are directly linked to the same country, the same government and the same administration.
What is more reasonable, to regard both of the events just as coincidence, or. as the warning (or response) from almighty Allah for the sacrrilege of his holy scripture.
There was sufficient time for the people to be transported out of the danger zone before the hurricane did strike therefore the officials can bear the responsibility for the deaths and not the god. Besides not all of the people who stayed behind did die why not give Allah the credit for that?
['Hypothetically, if someone were to show you sufficient proof that it is likely that no deities exist, what would you do?']
I don't know, I guess I would probably have sex with as many pretty women as possible and cheat on my taxes and few other things that I thought I could get away with without getting caught. I would also try to make as much money as possible by just about any means possible, ie using other people as stepping stones. And just live for immediate gratification.
I do agree with you that Science and religious beliefs can coexist... they have for a long time. I do have proofs of that myself, so I do believe you there. Just not that we came from a caveman or an ape. First man and woman were Adam and Eve. I dont think they resembled an ape.
[Replying to the remark that we as a human species are not weak, but robust as shown by our scientific advances]
Scientific advances? Like polluting the environment and inventing cancer!?
Most politicians and religious leaders are members of secret societies. Masonry and the Vatican control the power of the world. These societies and the Vatican practice satanism. They have created international terrorism with the purpose of creating the third World War. They want to make it appear that all conflicts have been caused by conflicts and divisions between world countries and religions to establish a one world government and religion ruled by a leader who will claim to be the prophesied Messiah and to rule by divine authority. They will quote Bible verses to deceive people into thinking this is the Kingdom of God, and they will make all kind of signs and wonders. The UFO phenomenon and New Age Movement have been created for this purpose. This is the kingdom of the beast prophesied in the Bible in which all nations will gather. All people will worship the beast and all true followers of Yeshua will be persecuted. The aliens are fallen angels and hybrids, the gods worshipped by the ancient civilizations. Of course they will present great benefits to the population and they will relase new technologies and promises of peace and prosperity but do not believe them, they are only lying. This will be a fascist government, where all the people will be implanted with mind control chips and the useless eaters put to death. They have planted many lies to keep us away from the truth. God is not of any religion or denomination, because all are controlled and have substituted God because they claim to be the Truth, the Way and the Life. God is in our heart and teaches us individually, we must only understand and do what He commands. The Only Way is Yahshua the Messiah. What the majority believes is always the lie. Where the carcass is (false Christ), the vultures will gather (multitudes). <<<a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/" target="_blank">http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/</a>>> <<<a href="http://www.sherryshriner.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sherryshriner.com/</a>>> <<<a href="http://www.mt.net/~watcher/" target="_blank">http://www.mt.net/~watcher/</a>>>