I heard one of the hosts of a morning radio show I listen to tell about his recent trip to France. (He referred to it as "The Future") He said that the country was completely secularized. The churches over there have gift shops in the foyers and an audio tour to tell visitors what used to go on inside. When you hear these folk saying how we should be a secular nation, think about the true end-game...
A secular ontological proof of the existence of your future home, lest you repent:
1. Every natural innate human desire has a corresponding satisfying object in reality. (e.g., thirst has the object of water, hunger has the object of food, love has the object of persons and dogs, like me :-), knowledge has the object of reality perceived through our five senses plus the enormous complexity-resolving hardware and software of our brain, etc) (observation and human experience)
2. Humans possess a natural innate desire for objective moral justice to be satisfied. (human psychology; in fact, this desire is so strong that even many atheists will utter the phrase “Go to Hell”)
3. Therefore, objective moral justice exists. (1,2 Modus Ponens)
4. If objective moral justice exists, then it exists for everyone – otherwise, it would not be objective, moral, or justice. (definition of objective moral justice)
5. Therefore, objective moral justice exists for everyone. (4,3 Modus Ponens)
6. If objective moral justice exists for everyone, then it must exist in this life or a potential afterlife for everyone. (complete disjunction on potential human existence)
7. Therefore, objective moral justice must exist in this life or an afterlife for everyone. (6,5 Modus Ponens)
8. For some persons, objective moral justice is not satisfied in this lifetime. (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, unrepentant abortion "doctors," abortuary deathscorts, etc) (observation regarding heinous atrocities whose perpetrators never received OMJ in this life)
9. Therefore, for some persons, objective moral justice is satisfied in an afterlife. (simple cancellation)
10. Therefore, objective moral justice exists in an afterlife, i.e., Hell exists. (existential generalization)
(Special thanks to the following atheist-agnostics, and others unnamed, who provided constructive criticisms helping me to identify hidden steps: Elie, markb, Unrepentant Atheist, and Disqusdmnj. Any remaining errors are mine and mine alone.)
If anyone has been thinking that the majority of people are living moral lives before God, then they are living in a fantasy world. There is more sinning going on than this hacked breach exposes. Count on it. However, this doesn't excuse the hackers who took what didn't belong to them and disseminated the information to the public. These hackers are a danger to everyone. There is no justification for this data breach based on the victims being adulterers. These hackers are immoral, and people are passively sweeping this Truth aside.
I suspect there are some, whose information has been exposed, who will seek these hackers out to pay them back. The Department of Justice should be doing all it can to find these hackers and charge them for the crime they have committed before they go after another company they deem to be too morally corrupt - which includes many, many people and organizations.
Every person has been given the same Promise from God through Jesus (the) Christ. ~~ 1 John 1:8-10, 1 Timothy 1:15, Hebrews 12:1-13 ~~ The LORD came to save people from Sin. This means Christians have committed sins and still have the potential for committing them. It's not the confession before people that forgives and cleanses Sin, it's the confession to the LORD. If Duggar truly knows the LORD, then he can be cleansed and forgiven. The power of God to restore is absolutely amazing.
The good fight of Faith to lay hold of Eternal Life is an ongoing battle. No one who has fallen should lay down in shame, but get back up and go to the Throne of Grace to find help in their time of need. The world will scoff and accuse, but they have rejected Salvation and their words have no weight before God. No Christian should ever let their own Sin or the sinful, unbelieving words of others keep them from the mercy and forgiveness offered by the LORD Jesus (the) Christ.
No one who declares the Truth that homosexuality is Sin is a person who is without the flesh (carnal nature). We aren't the Judge, God is the Judge. Duggar's actions are sinful, but this doesn't mean that homosexuals are free and clear before God, or that Marriage has changed from being what God intended -- a life long union between one man and one woman.
One thing that seems to be pushed into the shadows is the criminal actions of the people who hacked this site. While the site stands for something completely sinful, this doesn't give anyone the right to hack it or other sites of this nature. Two wrongs don't make a right. These people should be tracked down and punished for their breach into anothers property.
Also , no real Christian believes or says that they are without sin. Duggar has never said that he was sinless. The difference is that he is a saved sinner , struggling and fighting the good fight of faith against the world , the flesh and the devil. He does not believe he is sinless but he believes and understands that he is saved from the everlasting consequences of hell because of those sins . He is trusting in the shed blood of The LORD Jesus Christ . He has never justified his sins by ever saying they were and are not sins. That is what you do though. You as an unbeliever have never confessed that you are a lost sinner deserving of hell. You have never agreed with God about your sin and neither have you turned to God and placed your faith and trust toward The LORD Jesus Christ so that you can have forgiveness and thus not spend forever in Hell and The Lake of Fire. From the moment you " ..obey from the heart" The Gospel and experience the New Birth ( John 3:3; 1st Peter 1:23), you will then understand what real peace is and not ever have to fear going to hell. You will begin a journey that has it's up's and downs , but eventually the assurance of heaven . Everlasting life begins the moment you become born again. God may have to chasten his children because of disobedience ,as we have seen and probably may continue to see in the life of Josh Duggar, but ultimately we will end up in Heaven because of The Work of The LORD Jesus Christ at Calvary . God chastens those He loves .
Speaking to His church and individual believers , God says, "Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby." ( Hebrews 12:1-11)KJB.
You reveal your value system by attacking a man who pronounced what is right even though he himself knowingly falls short in many areas. That reveals the truth of your value system that says that you must think a person has to be perfect to proclaim what is right . And I said that you are not perfect and no better in morals that Josh Duggar. You at least had the common sense and knowledge of your own sin not to try and dispute that.
To suggest even the slightest possibility of collusion by The New Testament writers to orchestrate such a fraud( writing a story to fulfill 365 Old Testament prophecies) , shows that you do not understand , at all , how the Bible was given . Consider the fact that the Bible is comprised of 66 Books written over a period of about 1,500 years by over 40 authors from all walks of life, with different kinds of personalities, and in all sorts of situations. It was written in three languages on three continents, and it covers hundreds of controversial subjects. Yet, it fits together into one cohesive story with an appropriate beginning, a logical ending, a central character, and a consistent theme. The prophecies that are fulfilled continue to this day and not just the ones that concern The Messiah . Not even the best computers in the world could manufacture and or compose such a book of 66 books that works together so well together and fit so precisely. How in the world do you get men from different centuries from several countries and languages to all conspire together to produce something that they knew was not true. The fact is that God inspired The Scriptures and used men to do it . No humans alone would be able to produce these Scriptures . You ignore these facts to your own destruction. Instead , realize that the prophecies that were and are true concerning all being fulfilled by The LORD Jesus Christ , are also true that speak of the judgement of hell upon all those that reject The Gospel .
(on a story about a gay couple settling with a clerk who refused to issue them a marriage license due to her Christian faith)
I'm sorry this poor woman was forced to be in contact with such reprobates. In the interests of her own health, I hope the homosexuality choosers didn't touch the clerk when they got their license, and that she disinfected the area after they left... because male homosexual choosers are notoriously diseased. Here's hoping these wayward men stay obsessed with their lust for each other, and leave little kids they like to hunt alone.
There is no such thing as "pornography addiction". The problem is the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes, two of the three primary Sin issues in humanity. These things will continue to exist, even if a person abstains from pornography. There are many types of visual stimuli that can feed these lusts, and pornography is simply one of them. While it's a fine idea to not offer pornography in hotel rooms, it won't stop the Sin from existing. Teaching people they are "addicted to pornography" is simply giving them a half-Truth, which is a Lie. Only the Truth can set people free from Sin, and only by following Jesus (the) Christ can people know the Truth.
(in response to "news" story "Atheists File Complaint Over Judge Who Offered Marrying Girl, Copying Scripture as Jail Alternative"):
Ah, look at all the Christian website stalking trolls up in arms over a simple verse of scripture! A simple quote from a piece of literature!
And comparing it to Islam and the Koran! Adorable! :)
Relax atheistic religitards. It's called wisdom. And it came from a book. (Oh no! Oh no!)
Had he not actually referenced the book of Proverbs or simply reworked the wording to some degree you wouldn't be convulsively frothing at the mouth right now and pulling erratically on your own hair.
Wisdom. If you dig a pit, you might very well fall into it. AKA, you will suffer the consequences of your own actions. Make good choices and you will STAY OUT OF TROUBLE. Period. Nothing more to see here folks. Yawn.
Liberal atheist extremists for you. Desperately at war with a God they don't even believe exists. Heck, they'll even stalk Christian websites FULLTIME, day in and day out, 24 freakin' 7. Yeah, that's not crazy. ;)
Kasich is the first candidate to be scratched off my list. He went to a "wedding" of same-sex twosome. If he was a real Christian, he should have said there is no such thing and stayed home. Seems to be too spineless and wishy-washy when it comes to the truth.
“I don’t read a Bible to figure out what I think"
Well, Johnny, that's because the Bible doesn't tell you what YOU think - presumably you already know that! Then again, maybe not. :-)
We Christians read the Bible to tell us what God thinks, and then, unlike you, we adjust our thinking and follow Him, instead of ourselves.
I would rather have a Theocracy than what we have now. People doing what seem right in their own eyes never works out for the good of the people.
"Actually, Atheism only make the statement regarding evidence for a God, nothing more and nothing less."
Ok, so give me some evidence for the No God Hypothesis.
"different ideas regarding abiogenesis"
Technically, abiogenesis was refuted several hundred years ago by Christians.
"Although religious texts often state how the Universe came to be, Atheism makes no statement in this regard."
Not true. Consider these 3 options:
1. The universe is eternal.
2. The universe was created by some sort of Being which is spaceless, timeless, non-material, immensely powerful, has personal free will, and is self-existing.
3. The universe was self-creating.
Are there any other possibilities? Option 1 is not supported by the current level of science. Option 3 is self-refuting. You proposed an option that an abstract physical model could have created the universe, but we don't have anything to go on that would indicate that abstract objects can create or cause anything. It seems to me that the most reasonable place to be is in option 2, unless I am missing another option?
"Morals and thinking are two different subjects."
Objective moral values and duties do not exist on atheism. And your "pope" and "cardinals" agree with me here:
“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication,some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference— DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))
“Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either.” A-theist William Provine
“The position of the modern evolutionist is that humans have an awareness of morality because such an awareness of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate when someone says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.” (Michael Ruse, “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics,” in The Darwinian Paradigm (London: Routledge, 1989), pp. 262-269).
"no purpose, no evil and no good," "no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life," "ethics is illusory"
There you have it - that is YOUR world. You don't get to borrow the existence of objective moral values and duties from the world of the theist - they do not exist to you - they are merely flavors of ice cream. When you make objective moral claims, you are actually acknowledging the existence of God - for which I thank you very much! :-)
"also is the hatred for God by Atheists"
Secular peer-reviewed proof that atheists hate a God they do not believe in:
http://winteryknight .com/2015/05/22/study-explores-whether-atheism-is-rooted-in-reason-or-emotion-3/#comments
Excerpt: "At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation."
(on being asked why Christians don't go after adultery/divorce the way they do homosexuality)
I think it has something to do with those fornicators and adulterers NOT demanding we accept and endorse their wayward lifestyle choices. NOT conducting fornication and adultery parades and NOT forcing our children to consider those immoral choices as "options" during sexeducation classes in kindergarten.
Just sayin'.
(On being asked why no churches seem to offer divorce counselling)
Churches counselling people who are lost, confused and in pain?
Yep. Sounds like some kinda pro divorce conspiracy to me!
Hee, hee! Adorable.
(On being accused of constantly cutting and pasting the same three atheist quotes from Dawkins, Provine and Ruse out of context)
Well, I am going to cut and paste these three quotes over and over again until every atheist I encounter has seen them at least once, and realizes the nihilism of atheism. Under that view, you are an accident whose lifespan is maybe 80 years. After that, you cease to exist, and eventually, the universe dies a slow cold death in darkness. Your existence will matter not one whit, so neither did the SCOTUS ruling or any objective purpose, meaning, or morality that you fabricate in order to delude yourself. You may pretend all you want, but you are just delud ing yourself. So, you cannot say, under your view, that anything is objectively "wrong" (including homophobia) without acknowledging the existence of an Objective Standard, or God. If you disagree, just take it up with your "pope" and "cardinals."
“Is there a God? No.
What is the nature of reality? What physics says it is.
What is the purpose of the universe? There is none.
What is the meaning of life? Ditto.
Why am I here? Just dumb luck.
Is there a soul? Are you kidding?
Is there free will? Not a chance!
What is the difference between right/wrong,
good/bad? There is no moral difference between them— So much for the meaning of history, and everything else we care about— you will have to be comfortable with a certain amoun t of nihilism . . . . And just in case there’s always Prozac.” -- Alex P. Rosenberg
No, sin is not sin, as you are describing it. Some sins, like some crimes, are more heinious than others, and require a greater "sentence" or punishment, if you will. Your views on homosexuality are warped, to say the least. You are correct that many Christians have let down the biblical standard in many areas, which makes it hard for them to speak out against homosexuslity. Divorce, and many other things, have diminished the work of the true church. Homosexuality does more damage than divorce ever thought of. It eats at the very fiber of society as a whole, like a cancer. Jake's needs to go back to Calvary, and dip afresh and anew in the blood of Christ which he shed to purchase our souls. He is riding the fence on a clear cut biblical truth.
Once a gain I responded to the beginning of a posting by someone and did not rad it in its entirety. My sincerest apologizes to the "black man" to whom I wrote a rebuke. I must be more diligent in what I read and write. I now make clear that I agree with the pastor, Jesse Lee Peterson that Jakes made a colossal mistake by saying that he supports same sex marriage as decreed by the Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court does not have \the final and binding word on homosexuality, Read in Leviticus 20:19 and Romans 1:20-32 and see what God has to say about it! Just because a man such as Jakes or any other, has achieved a measure of fame does not make what they say truthful. There is a far higher authority than any man--Almighty Jehovah God!--who is the source of true belief on any issue. The devil and his radical liberals spew out those evil ideas and they will one day, hopefully soon, be judged and corrected by the actions of God. Failure to believe God's Word, the Bible, and failure to believe on and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, will lead us into all manner of ungodly thoughts and practices. I join with Reverend Peterson in giving a biblically based rebuke to T.D. Jakes who seems to have departed fro Bible based Truth. May God convict and deliver Jakes from his politically correct belief!
A matter of time before judgment falls on this nation. These people will not have time to blink when it comes. The Bible warns against causing a Christian to fall.
Let their supporters mock, ridicule, wallow in their political correctness and snarky remarks... none of that will save them. Truly the blind leading the blind.
(on being accused of anti-gay bigotry)
It is not possible to be bigoted against a lifestyle CHOICE, so apparently you don't get it. (Homosexuality) is a choice plain and simple. The truth existed once before it was removed through heavy coercion by the very deviants it referred to. Gay is a mental disorder, based on an addiction or negative influences as a child or both. It's learned behavior exactly like Pavlov's dog, or do you think the dog ate the bell?
But do explain why the vast majority of "same sex" couples have one playing the female role and one the male.
You are missing the point here: your argument was that because SCOTUS had ruled that same-sex marriage is legal, that we should just get over it and not fight anymore. My reply was regarding how awful that would have been for black people if abolitionists had just rolled over following the heinous Dred Scott decision and said "OK, we must just get over it and not fight anymore." Do you see?
"In same-sex marriage, there is no punished/damaged party"
The individuals themselves are damaged - diapers at 30, AIDS at 45, etc, plus tons of psychological afflictions. Children who get adopted by gay "couples" are damaged AND treated as show piece pawns, and, of course, society is damaged with respect to religious freedoms. Here is an overview supporting my assertions - using secular data:
http://winteryknight.com/2012/05/08/a-secular-case-against-same-sex-marriage/
"No one "escapes" the homosexual "lifestyle"
That is easy to refute - Joe Dallas is one example amongst many:
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/daugostine_gaygospel_dallas.aspx
(after being told, "you're incredibly patronizing, I hope you know that.")
That's an objective moral claim that a materialist cannot make without stealing from God. I'm quite sure there are plenty of animals in the kingdom who are equally or more so patronizing (lots of rape going on there - that is plenty patronizing!) and most a-theists (the dash is to remind a-theists that they share a burden of proof) believe that we are nothing more than animals. So, you are welcome to call me "patronizing," and you are arguably correct; nevertheless, you have to leave Darwinism behind and steal from God to ground that, so the least you could do is to thank Him for it. Go ahead: thank the God you deny for allowing you to steal from Him. :-)
"I'm positive a country has never communally considered something moral or immoral that outsiders would disagree with, except perhaps when it comes to warring with other nations."
That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read in my life! You ignore all of world history: Hitler, Mao, Stalin, the mass slaughters throughout world history. And, again, you cannot talk about "moral" or "immoral" in any sort of objective sense without stealing from God. One man's morality is another man's immorality - you should know that by now. You are an a-theist: "morality" is nothing more than a preference in your worldview, like eating vanilla ice cream versus chocolate.
(After being asked where he got his Ph.d. and in which of the hard sciences it was)
PhD? Are you serious? Get your head out of your rear end and try taking a look around! PhD! Who needs a PhD in order NOT to believe in magic! You guys are too much! Hey genius, do space shuttles create themselves? How about nuclear power plants? Air craft carriers? Exactly. Did you need a PhD to figure that out? Boy, you're in worse shape than I thought!
Clear design is clear design. Only a complete moron would look at something so incredibly complex and multifaceted, with their intricate systems engineered with purpose and great planning and come up with, "they created themselves!". What sheer stupidity. And then you have the gall to ridicule others for recognizing that the design had a Designer! How embarrassing. I'm sorry but I'm just not stupid enough to be an atheist evolutionist. I tried, I really did. The evidence just kept getting in the way. :(
And by the way, we know our universe had a beginning and has meaning and purpose. What caused it to come into being? What you fantasy lovers call "magic" we know as God. Everything had to start somewhere, right? It didn't come from nothing. Duh. So maybe it came from Him, yes? Where'd He come from? Who knows. We'll know when He tells us. Sure as hell a better explanation than NOTHING did it! Good luck with that...
"To deliberately mislead is as morally repugnant as outright lying. One more example of the moral degeneracy of creationism."
Your statement is true on theism, but not on atheism. On atheism, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with lying. When you use words like "repugnant" and "degeneracy," you are pointing to objective moral values and duties. Such values and duties just do not exist at all on atheism, and your "pope" and "cardinals" agree with me here:
“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference— DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))
“Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either.” A-theist William Provine
“The position of the modern evolutionist is that humans have an awareness of morality because such an awareness of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate when someone says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.” (Michael Ruse, “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics,” in The Darwinian Paradigm (London: Routledge, 1989), pp. 262-269).
"no purpose, no evil and no good," "no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life," "ethics is illusory"
There you have it - that is YOUR world. You don't get to borrow the existence of objective moral values and duties from some unknown "god" - they do not exist to you - they are merely flavors of ice cream. When you make objective moral claims, you are actually acknowledging the existence of an Objective God - for which I thank you very much! :-)
This "church" is no different than the many "churches" who have been denying Truth for centuries. This denomination arose due to people wanting something different than what the Holy Spirit teaches and provides. The first Apostles warned of these things coming, and they manifested as the Holy Spirit revealed. While the acceptance of homosexuality or being complacent about its existence is evil, there are many, many false doctrines practiced by organizations and individuals in the world today and have been for a very long time. The tares multiply at an alarming rate, while the wheat continues to grow unto God.
The Time is short.
This woman has some very serious issues, not the least of which is that she should NOT be allowed to be the minister of any Christian church. The Bible has had so many prophecies already fulfilled and it certainly isn't a book of myths. How she ever was ordained is a mystery to me because true Christians do NOT turn their back on God and renounce their faith - thus she is influenced by a demonic entity. And she fails to understand sin nature as being the reason people do things that are wrong. She is really to be pitied in some aspects because she is very, very deluded. I would not want to be her on Judgment Day.
(sarcasm on)
Do you really think, Trump, that the belief in God is a core essential doctrine for Christianity? I mean, maybe that's just YOUR interpretation of the Bible, huh?!? Maybe the Bible and you Christians just need to progress into the 21st century where atheists are fully qualified to be pastors? Why the Bible doesn't even have the word "atheist" in it - so there is nothing wrong with a Christian being one!
What are you - some kind of fundie or something? Where is your "tolerance," you "bigot?!?" Why can't you just accept this woman for who she is - just love her, like Jesus does? What a "hater" you are - just like those Pharisees! If they fire her, I hope she sues them and calls down the Human Rights Commission on that church! Separation of church and state! Constitution! Gay rights! Feelings!
(sarcasm off) (Did I miss any talking points? :-))
"Every church has a different opinion on the issue"
Well, see, that is the problem. Truth and morality are not defined by individual churches but by God. The authentic Church has not "evolved" on this issue for nearly 2000 years. So what changed?
Not Jesus Christ.
Not Scripture.
Not the laws of hermeneutics.
Not orthodoxy.
Not orthopraxy.
Not the Sanctity of Marriage.
Not creeds.
Not Church documents and statements of faith (until the last few years, of course).
Not the epistles.
Not objective truth.
Not objective morality.
Not moral law.
Not even natural law.
...
And, finally, not man's desire for selfish sin and to gain autonomy from his Creator.
So, what's changed? Nothing! Except of course, some "churches" who think they can keep their collection plates full by following man instead of God.
The last days new word religion will be led by"Christians" like this. Satan has already been visiting strong well known Christian leaders promising them power if they will pour out a drink offering to him. Some are definitely selling out, something I cannot understand. They will have satanic power, but so will Christ's Church!
God owns the earth and the people in it, he can do with it as he sees fit. "there is none righteous, not one" is NOT a Jesus quote it is from the old testament prophets. I think you have issues with the translation your are using. However, you have the gist of it - all humans deserve hell because we are in fact evil by nature. To allow for justice God came to earth as Jesus to lead a sinless life and then willingly allow himself to be killed so in the end God can say of course its fair I did it myself except I didn't deserve anything you did to me on earth. Then to demonstrate his love he applies the price he paid to the account of some people who accept the sacrifice, he then begins the work of changing your nature from that of being dominated by evil to that righteousness, that work is completed in each individual when they die, so at the resurrection we will be completed new creations capable of living in the new heaven and earth without wrecking it.
Your basic issue is not with the bible, but with god. You hate God. Which is your right, but its not surprising because that is also part of the message of the bible. Man hates God and that is why there is a separation. The good news is in the end everybody gets what they want, the god haters such as yourself will be eternally separated from any benefit God might convey. And those who love god will be with him and separated from the God haters who have wrecked this world.
Anyway, I don't have anything else to ad. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.
Lisa Severine Nolland is spot on.
Sinners came to sit with Christ as he sat and ate (Matt 9) and he was questioned by the Pharisees as to why he would allow that. Christ made it clear in Mark 2:17, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Christ came to save sinners, that's the reason for his life, death and resurrection...destroy sin (1John3:8) and save those who love and obey him (John 14:21-24). We cannot say that we love and obey God if we do the opposite of his word. We're either with God or against him (Matthew 12:30, John 3:34).
Yes, we are to love others, but "love doesn't...rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth" 1 Cor 13:6. To condone the sins of others is doing a great injustice, not only to them, but to ourselves, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good." Romans 12:9. We also have to keep from polluting ourselves by not condoning/partaking in the sins of others...Ephesians 5:1-21 goes into great detail about this very thing.
There comes a point when Christians will have to choose.
Matthew 10:37-39 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
The only "legal standing" Christians need is the Righteous Standing we have been gifted with from the LORD, Jesus (the) Christ. Those who accept or are permissive towards homosexuality are betraying this Righteous Standing and are not to be supported Christians.
By all means bring in the false idols...cue the violins, we're going down in flames, we'll need some Roman music and more cowbell, of course. Hindus have the Golden Bull they worship as a main deity, does that sound familiar?
I don't need to protest divorce because it is not being paraded with pride and shoved down our throats as normal nor is it forced on our children as acceptable.
Furthermore you really need to stop using the Mosaic law as your argument. It was 613 mosaic laws written for the Jews which were to be separate and holy before The Lord and disease free and cholesterol free, ie shellfish. It is amazing how people who love their sin misquote and misinterpret the truth. We are under the Moral Law of Christ which is all repeated in the New Testament. Sexual sin being one of them, including adultery and fornicators which is not being celebrated while mocking The Lord. All need to repent. God hates pride and sin.
TO YOU WHO THINK WE SHOULD OBEY THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT OR WRONG: If you were the Three Hebrews in Daniel, would you have bowed down to Nebuchadnezzar's idol ? If you were a doctor, and the government said to kill babies, would you ? If you were a German soldier for Hitler, would you have helped kill Jews ? If you were a judge, and the government made it legal for a man to marry a 12 year old boy, would you marry them ? If you were in the US military, and the government said to kill Christians, would you ? We ought to obey God rather than Man.
You see Christians at war with law abiding citizens do you? And trying to install fascism and suspend the rights of American citizens?
Pretty sure you just described your Muslim president bud. The historical fact of America's founding on Judeo-Christian values is irrefutable. Maybe you should just thank your Christian founders, presidents, legislators and representatives for creating and leaving for you such a great and free country to live in. One that allowed you to grow up to be so amazingly ignorant to historical fact and ungrateful for the very freedom to believe how you wish despite your ridiculous claims that you cannot receive such freedom from the very Christian America you grew up in. Hypocrite.
That is a smoke screen and false. You are getting your 'facts' right from the mouth of PP and we are now learning just how deceitful they are about their 'activities'.
"The fact of the matter is that 51 percent of Planned Parenthood’s yearly clinic income – their only self-sustaining revenue source – comes from abortion, 329,445 abortions.
40 percent of all reported abortions committed in the United States occur at a Planned Parenthood clinic, making it by far the largest abortion provider in America. (Editor’s note: When using the national abortion numbers from the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood does 27.5 percent of all abortions in the United States,)
Planned Parenthood claims to provide 11 million “services” in America each year. From this overly inflated number, they calculate that the 329,445 abortions they committed in their last reported year amounts to only 3 percent of their services.
Planned Parenthood’s 3 percent figure has been bought hook, line, and sinker by the mainstream media as proof positive that Planned Parenthood isn’t really about abortion. But if you take even a cursory look at Planned Parenthood’s own data, that claim begins to unravel and quickly."
Read the rest of this article which details how PP fudges the numbers: http://www.lifenews. com/2012/09/05/media-hides-fact-planned-parenthood-does-40-of-abortions/
Also, you totally ignored what I said about the women's health screenings and preventative services being obtainable anywhere today and fully covered for everyone. So...why oh why do taxpayers need to fund PP when we are already paying for Obama Care (which guarantees 100% care to all)? Over the last 10 years, Planned Parenthood has gotten more than $4 billion in state and federal government aid. And, now we know they are making money selling baby parts. Shameful!
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention provides free or low-cost breast and cervical cancer screenings — without aborting babies. State health departments provide free cancer screenings — without aborting babies. Community health centers provide a range of medical services — without aborting babies.
These organizations are genuinely committed to women’s health, with no ideological commitment to abortion.
Planned Parenthood’s twisted conception of “reproductive health” doesn’t extend to the baby that has been reproduced. All you need to know about its priorities is that it only provides 19,000 “prenatal services,” which means that it performs roughly 17 times more abortions."
http://nypost. com/2015/08/03/planned-parenthoods-pathetic-3-percent-lie/
Be very careful of translations after the KJV . . . compare and note verses left out, words omitted or changed, etc. - Bible haters print Bible too Be careful.
Ask evolutionists to show an example of populations of fish morphing over generations ('evolving' they call it) eventually into animals we'd clearly no longer consider fish. This is what they claim happens, yet pick any animal: the human race has never observed any such thing, hence it's observable scientific fact it does not happen until anyone ever shows it to do so.
Here's what is science: It's observable, scientific fact that no matter how many generations go by over the entire existence of the human race, populations of: fish remain fish, reptiles remain reptiles, birds remain birds, viruses remain viruses and so on. In spite of this, evolutionists:
(a) *Ignore* that scientific fact
(b) Make up a belief *contrary* to that scientific fact
(c) Where that belief *never happens, can only be believed in* and hence can't be called science anyway but demand it be called science and contradict what IS observable scientific fact.
Evolutionism is nothing but a complete distortion of science and observable, repeatable scientific fact.
Evolutionists are ignoring what is observable, scientific fact, make up beliefs that are contrary to this observable, scientific fact, where these beliefs also never happen.
Ummmm... the Theory of Evolution contradicts the Theory of Evolution. There are thousands of contradictions. The scientific papers don't even agree on many key aspects of the evolutionary myth. Archaeology contradicts evolution. Science definitely does not support evolution.
Just more evidence that evolutionary religion is a mental switch off for even the most intellectually gifted people on earth. Wilful ignorance.
Faith doesn't come from science. Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, Jesus (the) Christ.
Science won't lead anyone to Jesus to receive forgiveness of sins and Eternal Life. Only those who seek the LORD with their whole heart, mind, and body will find Jesus, thus finding the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Arguing scientific dogma with unbelievers isn't going to persuade them to believe and follow Jesus. Only the Holy Spirit will draw them to Jesus (the) Christ and enable them to hear the LORD. The Word of God has to be preached with the guidance and anointing of the Holy Spirit alone to lead people to Jesus.
Much like reading the false doctrines that Dave_L and his kind saturate comment boards and forums with, delving into science in search of Truth will only fill a person's head with lies and false information. Be particular about what you read, for it will effect you. Listening to twisted theories which are proposed with the express purpose of denying God's existence is very dangerous, just as dangerous as the false Gospels taught by so many over the centuries.
Well, who in the world needs Genetics anyway? It is certainly being ignored today...despite 'all those people working hard for their degrees'. Science is the god of the atheists...that is, until it comes to certain topics, like LGBT-ism and abortion.
LGBT people are granted special 'rights' to marry based on what? Genetics? Science? No...based on their feelings....they 'feel' they have been same, bi or trans attracted since birth. Ergo, all of society is to consider their cause to be just like that of black people who cannot change the color of their skin (which IS genetic). Gayness, bi-ness, or trans-ness must now be treated as a civil rights issue when it is really nothing more than sexual preference. And all people who disagree and do not support their 'cause', are now labeled haters, bigots. Based on Science? No. DNA always says one of two things...a person is either male or female. No gay gene...no bi gene...no trans gene. None. Soon we will have people clamoring for the right marry more than one person (already have a case pending) or the right to marry a consenting child. How can they be denied their 'civil right' when we based our decision for LGBT people, not on scientific facts, but on feelings> Hmmm?
And then there is the abortion issue. Even way back in 72 when the Court made abortion legal in all 50 states, there was plenty of scientific evidence that life begins at conception...that the developing fetus is a human being (which is pretty much common sense anyway...even a child could grasp that). But today, the scientific evidence has exploded with the advancements in technology so that we can see right into the womb and look closely at the baby at all stages of development. Surgery is even performed on these tiny infants when they are only a few months along. But, has the Court reversed its decision based on this new SCIENTIFIC information? No! Why? Because, once again, people who reject God in favor of their god of science, prefer to ignore their god when it does not suit their feelings or desires. How convenient. Women want sexual freedom...'women's rights'!...so science be damned. Science proves a fetus IS a human being and our constitution guarantees the right of life to every individual. But...no matter. Just ignore Science when it suits you, but defend it, tout it, flaunt it to deny the existence of God... which it has not done and can never do. How can anyone trust these scientists in their estimation of anything related to origins when they are so dishonest in ignoring the facts on these other very vital issues? Hmmm?
Nah, most Christians won't bother calling you 'loons or lefties' about this . . . that's all about your politics. As concerns God, we simply know what you are: 'LOST SINNERS' - JUST LIKE 'WE' USED TO BE!. The ONLY difference between you and us (true believers - not CINO's) now is that those of us who have accepted Jesus Christ, been 'Born Again' and have received His forgiveness for our sins are assured eternal life. Everyone has 'free will' . . . you can certainly believe or not believe what you want. Mocking and ridicule is NOT going to change our beliefs either.
Well, Dawkins believes it is immoral to NOT abort Down Syndrome babies, and Hawking said that "the universe created itself." So, when they make fun of Christians, it is a massive case of projection, as they so richly ridicule themselves. :-)
Seriously, Van der ventel above is like the great scientist of old who knew that objective truth is only grounded by the One Who is Truth and that all truth, God's Word or good science, is God's Truth and thus cannot self-contradict. His call for Christians to engage seriously in apologetics and STEM fields should not be underestimated or neglected. Too often, even strong conservative churches have held an anti-intellectual bias against such endeavors, to our shame, myself included. Since God literally owns all truth, it is a mistake for us Christians to neglect that which He gives us in general revelation. (Psalm 19:1-6 and Romans 1:19-20 come immediately to mind here.) Here are a few scientists, many who formed the core of the Scientific Revolution, who chose to investigate general revelation precisely because such work glorified God:
Copernicus, Bacon, Kepler, Galilei, Descartes, Pascal, Newton, Leibniz (a brilliant theologian-apologist too), Boyle, Faraday (a pretty awesome fundamentalist preacher too, BTW), Mendel, Lister, Pasteur, Babbage, Maxwell, Stokes, Riemann, Joule, Linnaeus, Kelvin, Planck, Einstein (a deist only, non-Christian), von Braun (a creationist got us to the moon - with God's help of course! :-)), etc.
Here is a secular proof for the existence of Hell, your future home should you not repent:
1. Every natural innate human desire has a corresponding satisfying object in reality. (e.g., thirst has the object of water, hunger has the object of food, etc)
2. All humans possess a natural innate desire for objective moral justice to be satisfied.
3. Therefore, objective moral justice exists.
4. In some cases, objective moral justice is not satisfied in this lifetime. (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, unrepentant abortion "doctors," abortuary deathscorts, etc)
5. Therefore, objective moral justice is achieved in an afterlife.
6. Therefore, Hell exists.
What will it take for you to admit you were on the wrong side of the world’s worst holocaust in human history? Look in those dishes – those are the arms and legs and heads of dead babies floating there. If that is not enough to turn your heart, what is?!? What WILL it take?
(in response to someone arguing about an Alabama Sheriff having scripture put on some county patrol vehicles)
Don't forget to have "In God We Trust" removed from all your money too!
You know, in the name of your misguided understanding of 'separation of church and state' and all. Must just be burning holes in your pockets, huh?
Liberals. How they are consistent! You have to give them that.
Their absolute fear and hatred for God is legendary! Many even troll Christian websites DAILY, peeing their pants with worry that the Christians will manage to change the laws back to their proper moral form. As they were when America was truly blessed by Almighty God instead of her current status as the bizarre laughing stock of the world. Yes, be afraid liberal trolls. BE VERY AFRAID! :)
What you religious zealots love to do is take an adaptation, ignore the fact that the organism reverts back when the need for the adaptation is no longer there, then somehow without any evidence what-so-ever, produce a story of how the unobservable and mythological "billions of years" (where faith comes in) changed it to a much higher life form with no ability to repeat said story.
"No, 'evolution' is a real scientific term"
So is "Equus monoclonius". The e. coli experiment is an example of micro evolution or more commonly called adaptation or mutation, it does not prove dinosaur to bird nor "billions of years" - that is religious belief. The bacteria even after 60,000 generations, is still bacteria not an elephant.
Just like the straw man approach, show people adaptation or artificially stimulated mutation, then sell them the whole "common ancestor" religion. When you say evolution it encompasses the whole religion, billions of years and all.
"Oh yes, you do very much get to complain if someone mistreats you"
and
"Situations like these are why I don't accept objective morality"
These two sentences contradict themselves ("mistreats" is just an ice cream flavor on your view) just as in your prior post, you dismissed objective morality then used the term "poorly" in an objective sense. You are jumping back and forth between the world of the a-theist and the world of the theist - on the one hand, admitting there is nothing objective in the way YOU behave, but requiring objective moral values and duties when you are the recipient. Technically, you are stealing from a God you claim does not exist.
"from a subjective perspective I have every right to combat or remedy that suffering."
Not unless suffering is objectively immoral.
"Why would suffering have to be objectively immoral in order for someone to resist it?"
Because if it is not objectively immoral, it just becomes a preference. Like ice cream. My point is nothing more than one of consistency.
"Christianity" is following the commands and teachings of Christ and His apostles, which are counter to killing ANYONE. Hence, your claim that "Christianity has killed more people than any other religion in world history" is utter bunk. The Roman apostasy, which is the antithesis of the teachings of Christ and His apostles, is responsible for millions of deaths, to be sure, but let's not forget about Islam, which has AT LEAST butchered as many people as the so-called "Catholic church."
Here's another thing--if a "Christian" kills "in the name of Christ," he is an apostate, because he is disobeying the commands of Christ. If a Muslim kills "in the name of Allah and His prophet," then he is OBEYING the commands contained within the Quran and the Hadith.
That is exactly what Rev. Wright was saying. When you don't take his words out of context he's saying God is not blessing America anymore he is damning it. Just pick up a newspaper.....look at our morals today. The devil dances for joy as mother's kill their babies, father's kill whole families, rapes and murders and child molesting. Even Christians yell, "kill" to illegal immigrants and other poor and helpless. Women sleep with so many men they cannot say who the father is and it's politically incorrect to even 'shame' her. Our television set is full of murder, torture, and crimes against women and children. We are already ruled by Satanists as far as I'm concerned.
Our religion is what built this great country and gave even you the right to be as depraved and deceitful as you wish. If your religion of intolerance and hatred were to rule, you'd be nothing more than a slave to a master who'll make sure you feel every whip lash under his tyrannical evil grin calling you by the name of 'Useful Idiot'.
Stupidity is curable, willful ignorance is not. 2Peter 3:5 Also see Romans 1:18-21 You're without excuse, God's wrath is coming some day, whether or not you believe it is irrelevant.