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Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

(HeliocentricAvocado)
How awkward is it knowing your mom is pro-choice? Like “hey, thanks for not killing me…even though there was a pretty good chance you would.”

(Competitive-Steak752)
To be fair, alot of mother’s have been brainwashed and don’t know what actually goes during an abortoin, or at the very least don’t see the major logical flaws the pro choice stance has.

(Relative-Sense-2750)
I used to think this, too. Lately I don't feel so charitable in my estimations. Do most of them really not understand they're killing a child? Or do they just not care?

(AyeLel)
So basically all of us. Imagine the afterlife and all of your death siblings be chilling there...

(RuthamhardOfBeanland)
And this is exactly what the pro choice movement is about. They cite all these sob stories, but those cases are very rare, and the vast majority of abortions are for nothing more than convenience. They can claim its for rape and ecoptic pregnancies all they want, but when offered a compromise of keeping those unfortunate cases legal, and banning abortions for convenience, they will never accept. Because convenience is what its really about

OhNoTokyo #wingnut reddit.com

image

I disagree.

If you have the right to life, fighting for that right does not become wrong just because you might not agree on what comes next.

If I save you from being shot, I am not wrong for saving you, even if I have no plan to assist you with the rest of your life.

I agree that it is desirable as a rule to try and help people as many steps forward as possible, but the "whataboutisms" here miss a few things:

While it is clearly wrong to abort, the justification for certain programs isn't based on that. They have to be assessed on their own merits.

Let us pretend that I had a plan to simply hand every person in the US a million dollars. A million dollars isn't what it used to be, but if wisely managed should be enough to allow you to be housed, eat food and maintain a reasonable fixed income, even if you couldn't work.

However that would be about 300 trillion dollars.

You then have to ask some questions:

Where does the government get 300 trillion dollars?

How much money does it take to pay to administer the disbursement of a million dollars to 300 million people?

Does the very amount of money handed out cause rampant inflation which reduces the value of the million dollars below the value it originally is set at?

And I am sure there are many other questions.

Now, don't get me wrong, my example is absurd, but it is absurd to make a point:

Giving someone a million dollars would definitely be positive for someone, but there are foreseen and unforeseen problems with any program, even ones that are not quite as ludicrous as the one I am proposing.

And you can't ignore those issues. If your sole criteria for implementing a program is that, "its better than abortion" then that's a pretty low bar.

I am not saying that I don't support programs to assist people, but I think the argument that, "you're not pro-life unless you support X or Y program" is bogus.

If you want those programs, then justify them on their own merits. Don't allow them to be unjustifiably linked to a position that stands alone.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

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(backup225)
Pro-choice people rarely want to address the question of fetal personhood. You have to get thru 40 layers of deflection and red herrings and whataboutism before you can even ask what makes a fetus not a person.

(HarryCallahan19)
A few things:

“Ripping children out of loving parents’ arms at the border with no plans of reuniting them?”

First, didn’t President Obama build those cages for illegal immigrants?

Next, if a crime is committed in the presence of children, parents and children are separated. Of course they are. If a parent steals the child is not going with them to the jail house.

Finally, I would rather rip children away from their parents than rip children apart in the womb.

NARAL is a disgusting organization.

(Strait409)
Ah, yes, the ole “You’re not really pro-life unless you support big-government leftist policies.”

(SovietDankMemer)
I don't support children being locked in cages alone (deport all the family or keep all the family in the cage, just not separate them).

20000 maternal deaths compared to 62 million fetal deaths? lame.

I support free meals at schools

again, 62 million is more than any number they can give to you

And the rest, wow, these people just don't learn. I, as a pro-lifer, support organizations that ACTUALLY help mothers take care of their children, instead of having them abort them, but these so called "pro choicers" don't want choices, or our options/suggestions, or other solutions. Pro choicers want abortions and nothing else. Pro choice = pro abortion = pro death.

(TKDB13)
Classic technocratic utilitarianism: "Our models (which, like all statistical models, hinge on certain assumptions and estimates that are not at all certain) suggest that right-wing policies (which we assume all pro-lifers endorse wholesale) statistically fail to prevent deaths and suffering that competing left-wing proposals, again according to our models, would. Therefore, your position is morally equivalent to direct and willful murder. Now, since we have DESTROYED your pretense to the moral high ground with facts and logic, you must concede that we be allowed to go on committing direct and willful murder!"

ArdinOkira , TechnicalMonth8023 & Ambitious_Bat_6308 #wingnut reddit.com

(ArdinOkira)
Recently came across someone who made the claim that Pro-lifers making exceptions is evidence we just want to punish women.. how does that even make sense?
Would it not be the opposite? That we make exceptions means we Don’t want to punish them, it means we just want the killing of the unborn to stop.

If we wanted to punish women we wouldn’t make a single exception, we would go after the woman instead of the doctor, we wouldn’t be suggesting all sorts of alternatives and ways to get help during the woman’s pregnancy.

In no way does their claim make sense.

(TechnicalMonth8023)
Without seeing it in context, probably what they are saying is that by making exceptions (such as for rape/incest), we truly don't believe the baby has inherent rights, we just want to punish women for having sex/lifestyle choices. And they would seemingly be right- exceptions like those eliminate our argument. It's a lack of consistency. It's a catch-22 for us, in that many see incremental pro-life laws as a way to get public support for legislation while at the same time, they make us look illogical and insincere about our convictions.

(Ambitious_Bat_6308)
as always the black-and-white thinking of some pro-choicers confuses the shit out of me

just because something is a consequence of an action it does not mean it is a negative consequence. if you eat you are no longer hungry, if you do your errands today you do not have to do them tomorrow, if you look up the definition of a word you will no longer be ignorant of its meaning

and again.......... pro-lifers obviously don't view children as punishments. I have no doubt that there are people who think pregnancy is just what some dumb women deserve but they tend to be pro-choice, not pro-life, and they tend to say that kind of shit to pro-life women specifically to sexually harass them. weird, it's like a misogynist is a misogynist no matter how they choose to label themselves!

Various commenters #wingnut #fundie reddit.com

(IronExternal4536)
switching from pro-choice
im from gen-z. im also a christian and a female. i felt this societal pressure to be pro-choice, calling out everything as racist or homophobic, etc. i felt like if i didn’t become pro-choice, i would be shunned and labeled as misogynistic and evil by leftists. i felt like i had so much to lose if i ever publicly became conservative. however this morning, my pastor gave the church his opinions on abortion. And this is what he said, “I believe God does not accidentally put babies in this world, even in tragic situations of rape and incest, that baby is made in the image of God, and God has a plan for that baby.” That sermon made me question if pro-choice was for me. I want to put the Lord before myself. The bible says that those who honor the Lord, even if they are socially unacceptable, will be rewarded greatly in heaven. Even if i wasn’t religious, i felt my beliefs didn’t always align with pro-choicers. I just THOUGHT i believed them because social media has put it in my mind and brainwashed me into thinking that it was the morally right thing. I hope other fellow gen-z, or anyone from any generation, who feel pressured to believe certain things, question everything that society tells you. Give it a thought before you believe it.

(IamLiterallyAHuman)
Our generation is sadly manipulated into supporting genocide

(thepantsalethia)
The devil wants child sacrifice. Prochoicers are psychologically abusive. You need to break free from their toxicity.

(bluegreen1055)
Good for you! Get ready for the persecution, but don't worry, you aren't alone! The world will shun you, but take heart, we are called to not be of this world. There is a blessed hope waiting for us on the other side. Just like working hard all week for the weekend, we work hard here on earth, take all kinds of crap you know, but in the end, it'll all be worth it, I promise!

(whatisthisadulting)
Freedom Isn’t Free. This sexual revolution is about one thing: sexual promiscuity. The freedom comes with the cost of murder.

(Dangerous-Paper9571)
Progressivism is really the default view for most people. They haven't thought about it and settled on what they believe. They are just told what to believe and they believe it. But some of them are like you and experience this nagging feeling of "wait, this doesn't seem right."

Various commenters #wingnut #sexist reddit.com

(The_Didlyest)
And If the Dad wants Them?
image

spoilerSchrödinger's Fetus
When the unborn
child's value depends
on whether the
mother wants him, he
is both a valuable
human being and a
worthless clump of
cells at the same time.

(Standhaft_Garithos)
Fathers are only considered for their productivity/contributions, not as human beings.

This is more true with the neo-progressives, not less.

(Vicarious_schism)
This fact alone should show everyone that we do not live in a patriarchal society

The opposite is true

Men have zero rights, both ways too

You have no choice whether they want to keep it or not

You’re there for money that’s it

That’s a terrible way to function and something is wrong in that situation

(Standhaft_Garithos)

The opposite is true

The opposite is not true. We do not live in a matriarchal society. We simply do not live in a patriarch society as defined by insane people.

This is no different than the fact that science is the pursuit of truth, but $cience, as defined by the powers that be, is not the pursuit of truth.

Life is a struggle, but not one in which man and woman are in competition with each other.

(PixieDustFairies)
The problems is that these leftist Marxist see all human relationships as a power struggle between the oppressors and the oppressed. And with that sort of belief, it creates an awful lot of resentment.

(Standhaft_Garithos)
Absolutely, their evil godless ideologies create conflict and misery by design.

(smithm89953)
Not to mention if divorce happens. Then the mom gets everything, almost entirely without discretion. Only in rare circumstances does the father gets to keep the house or have custody of the kids. Laws are almost entirely rigged against men.

(asavingfaith)
If the mother doesn’t want the baby but the dad does; then the dad is an emotionally manipulative tyrant who doesn’t support his wife.

I’ve literally seen that said so many times on r/abortiondebate recently. Harrowing.

kaltkalt #sexist #psycho reddit.com

Date rape drugsin the system, yes. Alcohol no. Everyone gulps down alcohol, girls exist in bars to get guys to "buy me a drink". But sure if she has a ton of benzodiazepines that she’s not prescribed in her system, i might consider that evidence. But I also know how people buy and trade pills, especially benzos, and like to use them when they go out drinking to get extra-wasted.

As for greivous bodily injury, like... seriously bruised, broken bones, cuts, extreme vaginal tearing, ok definitely evidence of an assault and rape, but how do we know she accused the right guy? Were they on a date? Because there’s certainly no epidemic of guys beating up their dates.

Also, and this is something I learned recently that i still find disturbing... women love rape play. They love a big strong guy coming in, slamming them down on the bed, ripping off their clothes, being extremely rough, grabbing their throat and hair, tossing them around and taking his huge cock and fucking her brains out... all while wearing a ski mask as she yells no no nooo, ohhh yess yess yesss!

I didn’t even believe this until i saw how big the "rape play" forum is on fetlife.com. I heard there were some complaints so it might not be there anymore, this was like 2 years ago. And it was ALL women talking about how hot being raped is - as long as the rapist doesn’t mess up her hair and makeup too badly.

I could never do that to a woman, i guess because I’m a pathetic beta male. But hey, I’ve seen the type of guy women are attracted to. I’m just not sympathetic to rape claims

kaltkalt #psycho #sexist reddit.com

There is never evidence of rape, just "she said" and maybe "she cried on the stand".... DNA tests don’t prove anything except two people had sex. People fuck all the time, especially after drinking. So the accused saying "we had sex, it was consensual" is reasonable to believe and casts doubt on the accusation. In other words it’s reasonable doubt. Defendant should be acquitted every time.

The only time someone can legitimately be convicted of rape is if it’s done in the middle of a public place, or if the rapist films it or confessesto it in a diary or something like that. This practically never happens... once a decade maybe. So there should be only one rape conviction every decade. If even that. It’s a crime that cannot be proven by its nature.

Ambitious_Bat_6308 #wingnut reddit.com

well let's see, many serial killers have come out and said they saw their victims as worthless wastes of space (essentially)--in their view it wasn't murder, guess we have to posthumously pardon all of those who have been executed and pardon those who are rotting in jail right at this moment

anyway this is why philosophical arguments of this particular nature need to be dismissed outright. they are not conducive to the abortion debate at all, and more often than not the person making the argument doesn't know what tf they're even talking about. they just straight up ignore that the issue pro-lifers have with abortion is that it kills young humans, not that it's a person, not that we ascribe a value judgement to a young human based on his or her location, sex, or potential, not that we think a fetus at four months development is "exactly like" a toddler. they do not want to know our stance so it is not even worth debating with people like this. they are bad actors, especially if they are trying to weasel you into agreeing that some humans aren't "human" and thus it is perfectly fine to infringe upon their rights. like come tf on. this dumbass would be singing a different tune if someone told them it was ok if they were murdered because "well your murderer would think it's justified because they didn't think you had value as a human :-)"

EastsideRim #dunning-kruger #mammon #moonbat #psycho #sexist reddit.com

Practice with men you don’t like

As a beginner, it’s easiest to practice Diabla with guys you truly don’t even like. This is the G rated side of it. If you all find this helpful, I can write up the X rated strategies I find useful.

“Treat him like a plaything” is organic when you truly feel he is.

For example. do you find basically all men unbearable? You wonder why even mediocre bros with nothing more than a high school diploma seem to always have higher paying jobs and so much more money than you? (Hint: it’s patriarchy, and often white supremacy + unearned intergenerational wealth in a lot of cases, though only patriarchy might apply to brown guys. There can still be colorism however.)

Great.

Whatever your stance, look for guys who hold a misaligned one, if not the stomach turning opposite.

Find yourself a doofus who loves his Tesla and his stonks. Make sure he has money (no studio apartment dwellers thank you) & is at least okay looking, not smelly, not completely physically repulsive to you. Remember how he has 3 vehicles, a vacation home, and owns a boat with his daddy, because somewhere down the line, his great great great great grandparents stole land from and enslaved other people’s ancestors. Or his ancestors oppressed the people in the lower caste your bestie is descended from. Whatever the case is. (Oops, if it turns out he is broke after all: play him for a minute, no longer than one pricy drink/dinner, then move on quick. These are low stakes speed practice.)

You don’t want to date him. You don’t want to marry him. You want to be the fantasy. And get yours.

When you do fight these dingdongs, make it either a) minor or b) how he has hurt your feelings.

The main reason I assert sticking to the ones that you find at least “not-repellent” physically is that when I am truly repulsed by a guy I cannot fake it. I’m personally incapable. I do my best with the ones I find attractive physically, but have conflicting values so extracting from them feels like reparations/equalization, and I will never develop feelings for them. Bless those of you who can handle a rich yucko - I wish I had your stomach.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

(spookycheesepuff2)
Pro-abortion people: Killing your baby shouldn’t be “safe” for you. And if you were actually worried about that anyway, you’d stop posting at-home abortion methods that will cause women to get sepsis and die. 🤷‍♀️
image

(automatic_doors)
Oh, you don’t like unsafe abortions? Don’t get one, that’s how it works right?

If you choose to kill your child in a way that’s bad for you that’s on you

(Mollyseye)
It might be an unpopular opinion but if you're willing to kill a kid I don't care about your safety.

(IndiaEvans)
Yep. If something happens to you then it's your own fault.

(PostOpSalad512)
if you willingly do something illegal and dangerous, then get injured/die from it, it’s really not my or the governments fault

(Highlighter_Memes)
"BaNnInG aBoRtIoNs WoN't StOp PeOpLe FrOm GeTtInG tHeM! iT wIlL oNlY mAkE tHeM iLlEgAl AnD uNsAfE tO gEt!"

Also them : "BaN gUnS! eNd GuN vIoLeNcE"

It pisses me off when people think owning a gun is worse than getting an abortion. You're not killing a child purely by acquiring a gun. When you get an abortion however, you are killing a child.

(Annual-Strategy-6487)
Look man, people are going to be thieves anyway, so why make it risky for them? Leave the door unlocked and all your items on the counter please...

SaurfangtheElder #psycho reddit.com

[on experiment called "Rhythm 0", a six-hour work created by performance artist Marina Abramović. The audience was invited to do whatever they wished to and/or with the artist, using one of 72 objects she had placed on a table for this purpose including a rose, feather, scalpel, metal bar, and a gun loaded with one bullet. Some audience members started to cut her throat and drink her blood with the scalpel , some sexually assaulted her. One man even put a gun to her head and tried to pull the trigger ]


I could see myself becoming violent in such a situation, not because I'm evil inside, but through sheer curiosity. If you look at modern society and the way we live our lives, emotions like love and tenderness happen regularly. Kissing our family or hugging our friends is very natural to many people, and many of us are taught from a young age to treat others with kindness and not aggression.

When we are presented the opportunity to see the other side of the spectrum, to treat someone not like a human being and with kindness, but with hate or violence, it becomes interesting.

This doesn't mean that the person who ends up slapping someone is evil inside, or even that he enjoys it. It's our natural curiosity that also drives us to perform such an act. In the end I could walk away from this experiment where I would have been aggressive and violent and decide that I generally prefer being a nice person over doing that.

JulioGrandSlam , Tha_Vinci & FoggyKudzu #wingnut reddit.com

(JulioGrandSlam)
I am against abortions not because I think killing fetuses is wrong, but because I think people need to take responsibility for themselves and not sleep around.
Thoughts?

(Tha_Vinci)
I agree with you and have made this argument here before. People glorify liberal behavior and have dehumanized pregnancy with their shitty post-modern language cancer so people stop feeling responsibility for their actions. A "whoops I got pregntabt better get an abortion." as if it were regular procedure. if you look at stats 86%+ of all abortions are because of it being an accident. The remaining percents are if the fetus has complications or the mothers life is in danger. Less than 1% are bc of rape.

I dont think it should be denied to women who are actually in danger because of it, but it shouldnt be normalized the way its trying to be.

(FoggyKudzu)
Abortion is a permanent fix for a temporary problem. Pro adoption. What if we have aborted a human that had the answers for all of these problems.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

RE: They murdered my grandbaby 😭😭

(SmuggoSmuggins)
So sorry for your loss. Abortions really can destroy families and those seeking them don't seem to care about how it will make their families feel.

My wife's sister killed her niece or nephew with an abortion. Their relationship basically broke down at that point and now they haven't spoken in more than three years.

Sadly the culture today tilts so heavily towards self gratification rather than taking responsibility and it seems to have influenced your daughters.

(T4mvv1lc0xx)
our culture is so fixated with sex being as casual as possible with little consequence or responsibility

(Armchair_Therapist22)
Also I forgot to say this, as for your younger kids since you’re concerned about their morals. May I suggest having them volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center or some other pro life charity to show them what choosing life is and to get them better educated on what the “choice” is and what the baby looked like. They could also possibly learn there that a baby isn’t the end of the world and you can be an excellent mother and have a career and education. Maybe take them to the local march for life if your area has one.

(Major_Youth8788)
I wish you well, your not being backward or controlling your going to your morals and that’s what a family should be about good morals, I wish that person who did it to come back and say “l regret it”. I wish you to get better and we are all here to support you, this is why I’m against abortion it doesn’t just hurt the person doing the abortion it hurts others too it has a ripple effect. Wishing you well from U.K.

If that was me I would of left my GF instantly

(May_December279)
I don’t know what to say other than I’m really sorry. It’s hard enough finding out that some random woman you’ve never met is considering abortion, never mind your own child. Your daughter is lucky that she had someone so willing to help. There are countless girls in her situation who choose abortion because everyone turns their back to her and her child.

(half_brain_bill)
You have not been forsaken. This is a horrible way to find out that your family doesn’t share your values. Pray for them and your unborn grandchild. I will pray for your family.

(SethGyan)
I would first checkout the kind of education your children are getting. Already brainwashed to see it as a "choice".

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

It’s hard to think they forget abortion is murder
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(AnalysisMoney)
Didn’t hitler convince his followers that Jews weren’t really people? Huh…

(MLG_mics147)
Wow, such an interesting parallel🤔ᴴᴹ

(revelation18)
The nazis denied that their victims were human. Just like abortion advocates.

(ZBeEgboyE)
I don't think it's right to compare the 2 at all. It gives our movement a bad name.

(Revolutionary_Type95)
Why not tho? Both include the dehumanization of certain human beings to justify their killing.

(LastDot-1727)
Too much logic. PC liberals don’t like logic. They get too focused on the racial part of the argument and equating something evil that they agree with to something evil and race related means in their small capacity of ideological understanding that we must be calling them racist. So they will get defensive and name-call us racists in response, even though race wasn’t the point whatsoever - dehumanization is the point.

(shadowgar)
Could you imagine if hitler could have convinced the Jews to kill their own children before taking a breath and commit a self genocide?

What we have here is a very large group of people convinced to kill their own. The leaders of this movement don’t even have to lift a finger to do the dirty work. Why does this even happen today?

The_Real_PMC #sexist #pratt #dunning-kruger reddit.com

All feminists are like that, all feminists hate men period. Feminists are allied with each other and enable each others hate.
image

Transcript[Panel 1]
YES
I AM A FEMINIST
NO
I DON'T HATE MEN
[Panel 2]
I HATE MEN
-Pauline Harmange-
[Panel 3]
IF A FEMINIST TELLS YOU THAT DO NOT HATE
MEN, CALL OUT THEIR LIES. FEMINISTS
HATE MEM, THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.

NoteComprehensive695 #pratt #transphobia reddit.com

As a non-passing Trans woman, I feel there is no place for me in society, but I cannot envision a future for myself in the closet.

29 MTF

I started HRT almost 5 years ago and I've had zero results physically, in some ways I actually look even more masculine than I did pre-everything due to weight gain and general aging.

On top of it all, I just see so much hatred and venom spewed towards people like me at every turn. And I'm not talking about conservatives assholes, I'm talking about progressive people who never stop preaching about diversity and inclusion, but instantly shut the door behind them when it comes to trans women who have committed the cardinal sin of being too ugly. I see it non-stop from Cis feminists, other LGB people, Trans men and AFAB NBs, and younger passing Trans Women. Everyone looks down on non-passing Trans women. We're constantly ridiculed, treated with suspicion at every turn, derided as monsters, predators, & perverts, blamed for making "real" (aka passing) trans people look bad, and relentlessly shamed anytime we even try to exist uncontroversially in any sort of space, all while constantly being talked over and gaslit about our own life experiences, and our pain and suffering erased, and our accomplishments invalidated, bc after all we're just uber-priviledged men, and thus we clearly dont have any real problems in society.

It has all made me incredibly bitter and resentful. I feel like there's no place for people like me anywhere, not in normal society, not within progressive bubbles, and not even within the Trans community itself. I've lost my ability to empathize with or trust other people, unless they have similar circumstances to mine (AMAB, non-passing, no social support). I don't even know what I want or hope to gain from typing all of this out, just that this has been boiling over for a while and I need to get these feelings off my chest before I explode.

State Duma Defense Committee's head Andrey Kartapolov #wingnut #racist #psycho reddit.com

There are many problems over there [in Ukraine], for sure. A lot has to be restored, rebuilt from scratch, but the biggest problem today is people. These are also children and children are the very category that was the most mistreated by the Banderite Nazi scumbags, who simply brainwashed them. If we want these territories to be with us, for them to have a future as part of the Russian Federation, we shouldn't be concentrating on veterans first, although everyone is having a hard time. We need to deal with the children. Perhaps in our Suvorov's, Nakhimov's cadet schools, there could be additional enrollment and we could send these kiddies there.
Maybe Moscow's higher educational institutions, and others in the country, should reserve additional spots for students who could be placed on a budgetary basis, in free dormitories. Today, they can't pay anything for their education. Nonetheless, we have to do this because then people will believe that we're serious and Russia is here for a long time - forever.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

image

(tugaim33)
Wow, that last paragraph is an incredible example of projection. The ones who want to protect life are the “anti-human” ones?

(Dazzling_Risk_2752)
Abortion sympathizers are woefully unable to see their own delusional and misleading logic. So they need freethinkers like us to enlighten their empty, indoctrinated and close minds.

(CornHydra)
"anti-human premises" you're the ones doing the killing

(BurtMaclin11)
Also the “foundational premise” for Planned Parenthood was the eugenics movement. I’m not quite sure there’s anything more immoral and/or anti-human than attempting to control who gets to reproduce.

(Novallyy)
This is gaslighting. No one believe abortion is the murder of babies? I guess all the prolifers on this board are nobodies.

It seems like this person has guilt. He is the one lying to himself. Not us. We’re telling him the truth he does not want to hear.

(maryssssaa)
It seems like he believes that all pro-lifers are somehow rallied together to tell others that fetuses are humans, but actually none of us believe that and we’re all just lying to cover up uhh,, something.

(Disastrous_Style_827)
I still have no clue how such a simple thing as “killing a fetus is wrong” got people so riled up to create actual propaganda on their own…

(AndromedaPrometheum)
Because if they had to admit their killings are wrong the weight of the guilt will crush them into oblivion so is just a self-protection technique. "I'm not a killer, I didn't kill my baby I got rid of a clump of cells or a parasite" is a terrible cop out mechanism but they need it badly. The truth will destroy them.

(Disastrous_Style_827)
It still amazes me that so many people can all be so clearly wrong. It really makes you realize how effective brainwashing is and shines a light on how tragedies like the holocaust were possible.

(King_WeeWee)
These people want the right to kill. The other day I was going back and forth with one and kept mentioning ways to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That person basically stated that they were unwilling to do anything I suggested. The person also kept using words like patriarchy and misogyny, and saying that it's rape to force a woman to have a child. She also kept blaming men when the sex is consensual. They also keep referring to the fetus as a parasite.

Henry_Blair #dunning-kruger #sexist #wingnut reddit.com

Feminists are under a distorted perception of reality which makes them regard actual equality, as discrimination, and hence to act in practice to replace what is in fact a balance, with what is actually discrimination in favor of women.

Imagine a game where David and Sarah are standing on a flat floor in complete darkness, in a room where apples are hanging from the ceiling on strings. David realizes Sarah is eating something and raises his arms in the dark a little to find something to eat. When this doesn't bring him to any apples, he becomes angry and shouts that Sarah has a box under her legs, that gives her "potential advantages".

He demands an actual wooden box, "to balance" Sarah's box. Remember that we know that none of them have any boxes under their feet.

The production slips him one.

Well, now David's false belief that he is being discriminated against, makes him, the one who created discrimination - against Sarah. The hungry Sarah complaints that David now has an advantage, but David replies, "this only balances".

Sarah's hunger makes her more and more desperate to eat, and she starts jumping, higher and higher, until she finds an apple, and although exhausting, the practice makes her quite good at grabbing apples in the dark.

David now shouts, "Sarah has a much bigger advantage - she has more than one box, while I have only one!" And he demands, that hammers will be brought down on what's under Sarah's legs - "to remove the advantage!"

But if there is no box in the first place under Sarah's legs, those hammers, would not be crushing boxes (privileges) but flesh and blood (basic rights). David's box is a privilege and not a right, his hammers are eliminating a right, not a privilege, and both things are not the creation of equality, but of inequality. But feminists believe there is a transparent box under every man's feet and this is why they try to crush any basic equality of men while believing they are creating equality.

Various commenters #wingnut #sexist reddit.com

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(Gretshus)
If men were the ones getting pregnant, women would try to outlaw it on the basis of feminist equality.

(Sorry_Criticism_3254)
They would, and we would have hell to pay if a unborn girl was aborted!

(afterthefactt)
True: If men were the ones who got pregnant, you would find way more men who would support abortion.

Also true: If women weren’t the ones who got pregnant, they would be less emotionally charged over the issue and we would likely see far less women supporting abortion.

Also ALSO true: None of this has anything to do with whether or not it’s right or not. It only speaks to the fact that a person’s own role in the issue emotionally affects how they view it.

(Funny_Car9256)
Also true, more women are prolife than men. This stands to reason, as abortion lets men run from their responsibilities.

(Historical-Lake5874)
“In numerous studies females score higher than males in standard tests of emotion recognition, social sensitivity and empathy.” Yet for the pro choice women no regard for the defenseless, innocent and children of God who they WILL have to answer to.

(AndromedaPrometheum)
If men could get pregnant all feminists will be prolife so nope.

(DixieHadrian)
PP gets donations from these zealots and the virtue signaling rich people and corporations, funding from the government, fees for their abortions, AND they get to sell the stem cells harvested from the dead babies. That person is so far lost it’s gonna take divine intervention to get them back. I’d rather wallow in the mud with the prodigal son than be associated with that neanderthal.

(GoreHoundKillEmAll)
Monsters always wanting to kill babies and call it a right

Various commenters #wingnut #transphobia reddit.com

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(Camacaw2)
They already dehumanize babies so dehumanizing prolifers is the natural next step.

(ImProbablyNotABird)
And we all know what the step after that is.

(MeMillionthAccount)
person who doesn’t consider unborn humans to be human now doesn’t consider me human

Wow how shocking, who could’ve predicted that all along that they were hateful and self centered🙄

(AnalysisMoney)
Yeah but what if you identify as human? Can they deny you that?

(JewelFyrefox)
Oh no, can't wait for the LGBTQ to go after you for that comment. /s

(ItzJeanMB)
It’s confirmed guys we lack basic decency for not wanting adults to kill defenseless fetuses

(ExiledReturn)
Seems like some juicy projection going on.

I don’t consider you human anymore

They already dehumanize babies so this doesn’t mean much

basic decency towards other humans

But advocates the slaughter of human babies

Same goes for racists

But advocates for a practice rooted in the slaughter of the black population

Same goes for anyone actively rallying to remove human rights

While rallying to remove the right to life for babies.

(Annual-Strategy-6487)
i mean first it was because it was a clump of cells, then they were parasites, then late term abortions became ok and even encouraged. Now even adult humans are not deserving of life anymore. I think they've lost all reason and we might even see some murders happening soon

(Eadweard85)
Abortionists are already in the habit of dehumanizing people, so this isn’t much further at all.

(EnbyZebra)
Now we're dehumanizing born humans, sounds familiar, wasn't there some vaguely well known Austrian dude who did this 80ish years ago 🤔 Oh what was his name, Harold? Howard? Eh, can't be that important

(Methionylth)
“Pro lifers can’t show the basic human decency” they say while literally committing infanticide

(National-Mud-2490)
It always amazes me how people can be on the blatantly wrong side yet so sure of themselves. Abortion or pro-choice is comparable to slavery in my eyes. Why can’t people have the choice? Lol.

Willy_Fred #wingnut reddit.com

RE: Would you guys consider my stance pro life or pro choice? (I’m asking this sub instead of r/prochoice bc they’re insane)
I would say most pro-lifers would draw the line at conception, and most pro-choicers would draw the line much later than 6 weeks. A lot of pro-lifers ( I think it's a clear majoruity, but could be wrong) would also not support the rape or incest exception because though both of those are terrible, and the mother should be given a lot of support and help, and the rapist should be (in my opinion) put under the jail, the child is innocent, and does not deserve a death sentence for it's father's sins. Of course in any case the mother should have the right to give the child up for adoption.

I am curious how do you justify abortion before six weeks, or for rape and incest? To put it another way, what makes abortion bad? The pro-life answer to this question is simple. A zygote is a human being in their earliest stage of development, therefore they are due all the dignity, respect, and rights afforded any human being, chief of these being life.

Mollyseye , TheAngryApologist & SlipperyJim211 #wingnut reddit.com

Pro-choicers need to stop making implausible scenarios
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(Mollyseye)
Fine. They want implausible scenarios? Let's say there is a 26 year old woman that's pressing a button that instantly gives her pleasure. She knows that by doing this there is a 2% chance (each time) she will wake up with a random innocent person hooked up on her for 9 months. You wake up next to her but she decides that it's her choice to butcher you with an machete so she doesn't have to be burdened with you. Do you believe she has the right to do it? Do you accept your fate like a good pro choicer? Are you okay with people celebrating your death afterwards and the woman going on to kill 4 more people like this?

(TheAngryApologist)
This is basically the same argument as the Famous Violinist. They completely remove the agency from the woman. In this case the man has no part in the girl needing life support and no part in the girl being attached to him.

A more accurate analogy to pregnancy would be something like:

If I go up to a 16 year old girl and stab her kidneys, destroying them, while attaching a life support tube from me to her, keeping her alive, do I have a right to remove the life support tube?

Obviously not!

(SlipperyJim211)
Surgically attaching a stranger to your body is among the most unnatural of acts. They literally made a whole series of horror movies about this idea. In comparison, pregnancy is usually a natural process. One can inject artificiality into pregnancy via medical technologies (surrogacy, IVF, etcetera), but those are the edge cases. The vast, vast majority of pregnancies occur as a result of sexual intercourse. That's a natural process as old as the human race.

Pregnancy is not organ donation. If it was, the human race would never have survived the Bronze Age, much less reached the current year.

vintologi24 #sexist #transphobia reddit.com

(NOTE: Just for context, this is from the r/Transmaxxing subreddit.)

Passing matters

Don't let people bullshit you into thinking "i don't need to pass as a female". While many people claim to be supportive of trans people generally unless they think you are a female they will not threat you as such and a lot of people will not view you as a female if you know you were born male

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This is at large a consequence of the left pushing for gender-identity nonsense instead of focusing on sex-characteristics. US conservatives have been very aggressive in using gender identity politics against trans people in general while the left has been unable to give a good answer to what a woman/female actually is (it's about sex-characteristics).

Given this political climate your best course of actions is to become stealth, once you are able to pass you move to a different area and begin your new life as a female there. Keep your old identity separate from your new identity.

True. It's mostly old rapehons saying passing doesn't matter, it's just hard cope.

Not be able to pass at the end is exactly one of the biggest reason that I haven't decide to start hrt yet.

Generally i am not comfortable recommending medical transition to people who cannot pass. A transition without any great goal in the end isn't something i can really get behind. I do understand that some people are severely dysphoric and might have to transition anyway but even then it's hard to be enthusiastic about it.

DiamondConfident1811 & phi16180339 #wingnut reddit.com

“Consenting to sex doesn’t mean consenting to pregnancy.”
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(DiamondConfident1811)
Technically PC is right that consenting to sex doesn’t mean consenting to pregnancy. But the risk on getting pregnant is inherent to consensual vaginal sex. Thus consenting to sex is consenting to the risk of getting pregnant.

(phi16180339)
This is a much better comparison than stuff like “consent to driving is consent to a car crash”. It’s totally possible to consent to an action, and not to consent to accidents that may occur from that action. However, pregnancy is not related to sex in this way. Pregnancy doesn’t happen when sex goes wrong, like how car crashes happen when driving goes wrong. Pregnancy happens when sex goes right, just as digestion happens when eating goes right. If you consent to an action, you do consent to the end of that action, even though you don’t consent to the risks of that action.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

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(darasaat)
The organ donation example is always insane. There is a MASSIVE difference between refusing to save someone and trying to kill them.

If you want a more accurate analogy with the organ donation scenario: those that refuse to donate their organs immediately proceed to pull out a gun and shoot the “recipient“ in the head. That’s what abortion is like.

(Armchair_Therapist22)
This is a poor argument considering the mother put the unborn child into this position to begin with. It’s like they believe the unborn crawl up inside them while they’re sleeping and attach themselves. My goodness own up to your actions. Parents also have a duty and obligation to their child. Look at feeding in infant you have three choices you can use your body to feed them, give them formula, or give up custody rights to someone who will but you can’t kill the baby because you don’t feel like feeding the baby. Pregnancy while it can be difficult still doesn’t justify murdering your child because you don’t feel like doing it.

(Vicarious_schism)
Their ideas of consent are just stupid. The kid is innocent unlike the person who consented to sex and it’s creation

(Alinakondratyuk)
Again with this argument 🙄 the organ/abortion analogy is so off.

If having one’s kidney inside another person is analogous to BEING pregnant, then donating the kidney is analogous to BECOMING pregnant. So it proves that the gov shouldn’t forcibly impregnate women, which they don’t.

Edit to add: they can’t say it’s illegal for the fetus to do anything because they don’t give the fetus any rights in the first place!

(lilithdesade)
You can't take back your organ once its been donated. I can't withdraw consent of say, my liver, therefore resulting in your death. You can't take back your uterus once your own body gave it to another human.

(BerryLovely20)
This argument is so bad. Your organs were made by your body, for your body, and are a part of your body. That baby was made by its own body from the moment of conception.

A woman's womb was created to house and grow a human baby. Biologically and anatomically they have different functions than another organ, its for someone else, not for you. The fetus had more right to the womb than she does, it was created for that function. She has every right to keep her organs in tact or not. [...]

BiggerTrees #wingnut reddit.com

Obviously not all prochoicers, but a significant amount, suffer from tokophobia; therefore they describe pregnancy as this awful body horror, that will end in ripped genitals or abdominal mutilation every time without the beautiful "way out" that is abortion. Therefore they will find a way to excuse anything, as long as it saves them from their worst nightmare... Well, anything besides not enjoying vaginal intercourse with partners who can impregnate, apparently.

Tell these people that they are free not to buy tickets for the lottery where the big prize is literally their worst effing nightmare. Forcing anyone to play is illegal already. So it's indeed a choice. You think pregnancy is a blessing..? Cool, we're all free to act accordingly. You think pregnancy is literal torture / punishment / your worst nightmare...? Cool, we're all free to act accordingly. Just maybe, your unfortunate phobia is a personal problem, and the solution shouldn't be "what if we ALL agreed that unborn human life is just utterly worthless.. unless someone happens to want it there.? 'Cos that'd be better for me, thanks." But then, I suppose that living in a reality that doesn't exist primarily to cater to their own self interests regarding what they personally like and do not like is "torture" too.

MTKintsugi #wingnut reddit.com

RE: Why fetus is considered woman's body if it is created by fusion of man's sperm and woman's egg and it only feeds off woman? I would understand if fetus was only womans egg, but its also man's cell. Born kids are also feed off woman yet nobody says they are woman's body.

The unborn are not the woman’s body. The woman simply claims ownership due to location. It’s basically slavery.

Ho- How is that slavery? Im putting the organs in my body to work with no pay. Is that slavery? No, It's not. Just like the mother calling the fetus her's, it's not slavery! It has no thought, no life to be killed. Its a possiblity, that's it. But if that "child" is saved lets say, they miss behave then what are you gonna do? Say " I brought you into this world and I can take you out." God dammit.

Deciding that another person is your property is slavery.

And thats not a person, its a possiblity.

There was a time where the US Supreme Court said that slaves were not fully human. They did this to deny them their humanity and to excuse their mistreatment so that they would continue to be treated less than human.

The Dred-Scott decision was wrong and was later reversed because it was wrong.

Denying the humanity of the unborn is no less egregious and just as wrong as denying other human beings their humanity.

Your argument is a losing one.

Oh real rich coming from the same side as the people who wish to deny the humanity of trans people and just queer people as a whole, seeing us as mentally ill and pedophiles, groomers and the like. So I could say the same about your argument.

The topic of trans rights is separate from this. This is the topic. Stick to the topic. Trans rights and mental Illness are another discussion.

However, I don’t see anyone actively denying the right to life of trans people.

various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

RE: Why can’t a rape victim get an abortion?

(Zeul7032)
1.because the child did nothing wrong and no amount of personal suffering justifies you killing someone who has done nothing to you

2. around 32k women get pregnant due to rape in the US every year, killing 32k non rapist isnt going to bring that number down

3. the US has about 600k abortions every year around 1% of those are due to rape, that is around 6 k, lets just to prove a point say say that that 1% is in fact 2% (but some don't want to admit it for some reason, and lets ignore the fact that that would mean the 32k number is much bigger)that puts the number at 12k... that is still less than half of the women who get pregnant from rape, in other words even most rape victims don't resort to killing their child just because something unfortunate happened to them

(Anselmian)
Why are you pro-life, and how are those reasons affected by whether the person seeking to kill the unborn human being is a rape victim?

If a rape victim wants to kill her baby who has been born (say, because she was extremely traumatised and this was the first opportunity she had to safely do so), would that be wrong? What, if anything, is different when the baby is unborn?

(lanierg71)
Here's my take:

1. An innocent life should not EVER have to be murdered for the sins of the father.

2. The exception would swallow the rule. Everyone would start claiming rape to get out of an unwanted pregnancy post-Dobbs. Meanwhile no one has the stones to require women to make formal police reports, submit to a rape kit test, or prosecute the rapist criminally to qualify for this exception. Hate to tell you, but women have been known to lie sometimes about occurrences of rape and sexual assault. See, e.g., Julie Swetnick, the Duke Lacrosse team, "Mattress Girl" at Columbia U., and that frat at UVA/Rolling Stone.

(MrDixie_)
Circumstances surrounding the conception of a life don't lessen the value of a life.

(Trumpologist)
The child shouldn’t die for a crime it did not commit

various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

(Atmospheric-Icing)

How should abortions be punished
Assuming we are not talking of a situation where an abortion is needed to save the mothers life, what do you all think about how planned and performed abortions should be punished?

(chuck_ryker)
They should go after the doctors and facilities that perform them. Charge doctors with murder, and any nurses, secretaries, or higher ups helping out as accomplices. Immediately shut down any facility that hosts it.

(Iselinne)
Prison is the appropriate punishment imo. For everyone involved.

(boredguy3467)
Death penalty

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

([deleted])
Legal Consequences of Abortion
I am very pro-life and I want abortion both illegal and unwanted. However, what exactly does that look like? For something to be illegal, there must be a punishment. Would it be good if the woman went to jail along with the "doctor?" I believe that it is fair because she chose to have her own child killed but then again, the "doctor" is the one who actually did it.

What do y'all think?

(Flashy_Lab_7765)
I think that at least at first, punishment for women would be too much of a 180 from the current popular position. I think first banning performing abortions with strict punishment, then once it's both illegal to perform abortions and the concept of abortion is seen as around the same level as murder in the public eye, then we can illegalise procurement.

(symbiote24)
We need to take things slowly. Black Americans didn't get the right to vote right after being freed from slavery. I believe anyone that can be prosecuted for after birth murders should be also be prosecuted for pre birth murders. These include, getaway drivers, the person who wants to kill someone, the hitman, etc.....

However, that is simply not feasible to start with. Unfortunately history has shown that it will take time for these things to pass.

(GoreHoundKillEmAll)
both women and doctor go to jail

(MojaveMissionary)
I'm also Pro Life and I disagree with you on this. The so called doctors should absolutely be brought to justice for making a career out of killing innocent human beings and encouraging women to get an abortion.

But alot of women don't actually understand what exactly goes on when an abortion takes place, whether it's a pill or a procedure. When we decide who's innocent and who's guilty we always look at whether or not a person has the mens rea. So shouldn't that apply here? If a "doctor" tells a woman it's just taking out a ball of tissue I think alot of them probably believe that's all it is.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

I WILL LITERALLY DIE IF I DON'T HAVE UNPROTECTED VAGINAL SEX EVERY DAY OF THE MONTH!
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(FakeElectionMaker)
Pro-choicers and incels claim to hate eachother, but both think sex is a right and will kill people in order to exercise it.

(whatisthisadulting)
People don’t think about it as “a right to sex.” Nobody ain’t got a right to have sex. Sexual freedom? No freedom without responsibility, folks, and the responsibility of sex is CHILDREN. Y’all skipped biology by thinking sex is meant for anything other than reproduction. I’d say we’re pretty lucky we enjoy it and happen to do it for fun and pleasure, the rest of the animal kingdom only has sex when fertile and if you watch the females, doesn’t look too fun!

(melodychu9)
How can you constantly take shit from people who continuously telling you "no uterus, no opinion" and then blindly agree with them? Like they keep telling you your opinion doesn't matter, they don't even give a shit about men when they are PC.

Can't wait to see how the "sex strike" goes! 😂

(spekulatis)
Lmao yes, they act as though women are animals in heat and have no control over when or how they have sex.

Femcels and pc women have unsafe sex, and then are shocked when they become pregnant or get Pozzed or another sexual disease.

JeromemeReplies #wingnut reddit.com

Pro-Aborts' Great Desire to Sever Conception From Sex
Pro-Aborts, alleged stalwarts of sex education, have a very difficult time linking pregnancy to sex. Against all reason, they feel like they must fight for this severance or else the mother undoubtedly holds some responsibility and liability of causing a state of dependency on the unborn which obliterates any claim to bodily autonomy "self-defense".

If they sever this connection between sex and pregnancy, then every abortion case becomes as contentious as a rape case where the mother had no decision in her actions to get pregnant.

Which argument highlights the obvious connection between sex and pregnancy that everyone accepts without second thought? It's the duty of the father to support the child they helped create instead of abandon it. This argument is so powerful that it's banned from the abortion debate subreddit.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

Found this crazy person... (I reported her middle comment for hate. Will keep you updated)
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(DiamondConfident1811)
Abortion saves lives! Except for the 60 million+ deaths since Roe, but who’s counting?

(Adela-Siobhan)
You want to keep ALL HUMANS ALIVE?!!! You’re worse than those soldiers who carried out genocide!

(gakezfus)
By that logic, Anti-Nazis are THE DEVIL. Worse than Nazis. Who's going to take care of all the sick and starving Jews and other prisoners who you're forcing to live?

(Revolutionary_Type95)
If your child was going to die in a few years, wouldn't you want as much time with the child as possible? Killing them earlier isn't going to make anything better.

(JesusLovesYouMyChild)
The nazis would probably be heavily pro choice because millions of black babies aren't born due to abortions, the nazis would love that

(WhyIsIsTakenTaken)
The founder of planned parenthood wasnt a Nazi, but she was a racist eugenicist who believed exactly that

(smart_simulator)

Pro lifers are THE DEVIL. Worse than Nazis.

Look, I'm no fan of treating the National Socialists as the definition of pure evil incarnate, but they are by no means morally better than the pro-life movement.

Also, Satan is pro-abortion.

(DiversityIsDivisive)
Actually, the Notorious German Socialists only exterminated about six million Jews and six million Poles for a total of 12 million. Compare that to 60 million American children murdered by their own mothers.... The Stylish Goose Steppers are possibly our moral superiors

(smart_simulator)

Compare that to 60 million American children murdered by their own mothers....

I agree. I said that the National Socialists are not morally better than the pro-life movement: us, who seeks to end the barbaric practice of abortion. They are definitely less bad than the pro-abortion movement.

various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

Why is the pro choice stand always something with emotions, drama and cries and pro lifers more often go with morality and biology?

(BiblicalChristianity)
Because when you advocate for evil, you have to either admit it's evil or manipulate people into believing it's good.

So manipulation is one of the three branches of pro-choice arguments

(Ivy-And)
I think it depends upon the people. On Facebook I encounter more prolifers who are emotional or make poor arguments (what if that baby cures cancer?)

But overall I would say, you’ve got to work with what you’ve got, and pro choice can only spin out into unscientific arguments that devolve into bad philosophy and muh feelings.

Prolife can be all those things, but our best arguments incorporate sound logic, science, and hopefully some empathy.

(JesusLovesYouMyChild)
Also pro lifers appear more calm

(Jinchuriki71)
Well you see prochoicers gotta make unrealistic arguments about why eugenics and killing babies is alright its a lotta pressure. Also if there isno abortions than it may expose them cheating on their spouses.

(ASmartCorgi)
They value their own convenience and happiness in life over life itself.

(jaelyn91011)
I think it's partially because they don't see a need to actually defend their beliefs. I think a lot of pro-choicers consider their view on abortion to be "common sense", or that pro-choice is the position any well-adjusted person would take. Therefore they don't have to entertain arguments from the other side, because they must be in bad faith by default. A majority of the public and the media appear to be on their side, and it feels like an easy solution to a lot of difficult problems. Mothers in poverty no longer have to be mothers, teen pregnancies can just be whisked away, the list goes on. Not to mention there is a heavy anti-child sentiment among the public, so abortion is a shockingly easy thing to support for a lot of people.

[...]

various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

"No uterus no opinion" but I can still make fun of her if she doesn't think babies should be murdered
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(BiblicalChristianity)
"I am the post-roe generation" is now literally true.

(Bejeweled_Bird)
The whole thread is people saying they want her raped, think about that? Everyone who is pro-choice: Your ideology is so twisted, so disgustingly warped and you are so evil that you are part of a group that would rape a woman for being pro-life.

Every single one of you pro-aborts are disgusting, all of you. You are just the same as every other pro-abort.

(CorvusKhan)
All they know is depravity. That’s why the only things they want for people who don’t think like them, or people they don’t like, are rape and death

(Footballfordayz)
If you’re a woman who is pro-life your opinion DOES NOT count and if you’re a pro-choice man your opinion DOES count.

It’s actually just about agreement.

Sometimes I like to have fun by responding with a photo of the all men Supreme Court at the time of the Roe ruling.

(Jofuffle)
Kinda like when a straight white male is trans his opinion suddenly outweighs any biological female

(Footballfordayz)
Exactly

(Jofuffle)
Same with black people but in the reverse I guess. When they have a slightly non leftist opinion their blackness gets taken away by you guessed it. White liberals 🤦🏻‍♂️

(Footballfordayz)
Every time I point out a more conservative black voice there’s always the same response; “token black voice for conservatives” and it’s always from a white person.

They’re truly unaware of how racist it is…

(Guyincognito9876)
You know she’s conservative because she’s attractive and well groomed.

(AppoloniaSkyle)
So she's being attacked now by the green haired, morbidly obese "feminists" who only have fantasies that someday a man might touch them willingly. They're pschyotic over any woman who isn't repulsive from the inside out, like them.

(PharosProject)
They're similarly two-faced when it comes to men. "No uterus, no voice" is shrieked at pro-life men, but pro-abortion men (even those who aren't trying to be women) are welcome to join their rallies.

mangoorangejuice18 , HippyDippyCommieGuy & FakeElectionMaker #wingnut reddit.com

RE: I had an anxiety attack due to an argument over abortion in a discord server.
(mangoorangejuice18)
I’m sorry you went through that, anxiety attacks can be so mentally, emotionally, and physically draining.

I don’t know the exact arguments they used but as far as the rape exception not being consistent with Prolife (which you’re correct) I’ll leave some breadcrumbs I might have throw out there;

How should we treat innocent members of the human family who happen to remind us of traumatic events?

If the right to life means anything it means the right to not be killed. If that right can be taken away from an innocent human based on the violent actions of a third party that occurred before that innocent human being even came into existence, then the right to life starting at conception stands on no solid ground.

(HippyDippyCommieGuy)
Why?

(FakeElectionMaker)
I couldn't refute the view that being against abortion while supporting an exception for underage rape victims was consistent. And someone else said it's better to be aborted than to suffer.

(HippyDippyCommieGuy)
You could make the argument that since the woman didn’t consent to the act of sex during rape, the pregnancy would be a violation of her right to bodily autonomy; where as consensual sex leading to pregnancy is not.

As far as the second comment, that says more about that person than it does anything else.

If they think they’re life is meaningless, and they would’ve been better off aborted, then that’s sad, but it only applies to them.

It isn’t a fact, it’s an asinine opinion; and honestly, I don’t think there’s any reason to take it seriously

(FakeElectionMaker)
That person had asked if we wanted to punish women for their choices. Pro-choicers believe this argument implies women should be punished for having sex, as to them, we see children as a consequence

(mangoorangejuice18)
They purposely mistake responsibility with punishment.

The real punishment is dismembering the child for the crimes of the father and calling it justice.

various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

This woman is deranged.
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(empurrfekt)
“Fool people” from the side that opposed mandatory sonograms because roughly 80% of women change their minds when they see what their “clump of cells” actually looks like.

(mangoorangejuice18)
Totally unlike the completely neutral and non-manipulative tactics of planned parenthood where they dress up a liberal arts major in a white lab coat, clipboard, and call their abortion salesman a ‘counselor.’

PP will tell her they hold the solution to her burdensome problem.

The pregnancy center will show and remind her that she doesn’t have a problem, she has a new family member and they will join her in support and celebration of that, because no one should have to go through pregnancy alone.

(Dangerous-Paper9571)
The crazed, demented eyes of one who loves the murder of children.

(BiblicalChristianity)
Totalitarian reflexes cause the urge to shut down everything we disagree with.

(rothbard_anarchist)
I was concerned that RvW being overturned would result in a blue wave of enormous proportions. But the wild inhumanity on full display, attacking crisis pregnancy centers, may end up having the opposite effect at the polls. I think it's a fairly small subset of self-described pro-choice people who think women hoping for a path to keep a child should be denied that choice via shutting down the places there to help them.

(vintologi24)
That's because she wan children to be killed in the womb (anti-natalism) she is not actually in favor of bodily autonomy. She want to push women to have abortions, more is better in her mind.

(hail-holy-queen)
it's curious how they NEVER speak about what an actual abortion is. so many speaking points all so disconnected from the actual act that is killing an unborn child, because there are no speaking points to counter that.

Earliest delivery so far is 21 weeks, that kid is out there living his life. In my country abortion is legal for any reason upto 24 weeks, beyond that, just say you're depressed about being pregnant, doctor shop until one says okay, terminate.

Crisis pregnancy centers are a distraction, it all is from the above.

bcjh , BiryaniEater10 & LivingKick #wingnut reddit.com

(bcjh)
There’s no such thing as women’s rights in this subject, it’s about children’s rights.

If you tell any pro-choicer “well what about the child’s rights?” after they tell you that “it’s a woman’s choice” their next attack will always start the core of the argument that it’s “not a child…”

“It doesn’t have consciousness”

“It doesn’t have memories or sentience”

“It’s not breathing”

All of these arguments can be dismantled by any snappy Ben-Shapiro-esque argument about how sentience doesn’t matter and science. So I just felt like ranting and people hate it when I call it children’s rights or say “but doesn’t the child have constitutional rights!?”

(BiryaniEater10)
Wait why doesn’t sentience matter though? I’d agree that you can’t use the fetus not being alive as a stand-alone since it has potential consciousness anyways but sentience can’t be irrelevant.

(LivingKick)
Because drawing the line at sentience could be construed as ableism and discrimination based on developmental stage (age) which, for reasons related to Godwin's law and eugenics as a whole, should be avoided as possible grounds for what might be dehumanisation. Furthermore, if sentience is the defining characteristic, then that means that those who are comatose, brain dead or unconscious would, for that time, lack personhood which should be avoided on the basis that stripping personhood is never a good thing as it is now open to do unimaginable and harmful things to them as they have no personhood protection.

It just makes more sense to have the line be at the most inclusive and reasonable point possible out of an abundance of caution to avoid possible dehumanisation, which is why many PLers would view sentience as irrelevant as being a whole human organism, alive and having that capacity or potential for consciousness/sentience alone is enough.

otiac1 #wingnut reddit.com

Abortion isn't a religious issue, and your example is a poorly constructed false equivalence.

The failure with the violinist argument, and others like it (such as your "blood donation" example), is that it not only fails to account for the false equivalence it presents (e.g., a right to life is not the same as a right not to die, the relationship between parents and child differs from the relationship between stranger and stranger, the womb does not represent extraordinary means but is designed to support gestation), the consequentialist thinking necessary to employ it where if 'the ends are the same all means are equivalent' is refused in virtually all other cases except abortion to justify abortion, which truly is a case of an individual building an argument from which logically follows X, Y, and Z, but refusing Y and Z for no other reason than they don't like them. If a person needed a blood transfusion, their cause of death would not be "failure to receive blood transfusion," but "injury." If a person is aborted, their cause of death would not be "failure to adapt to their environment," but "<dismemberment, chemical scalding, or any of the other absolutely barbaric means by which children are killed>."

This is beside whether comparing sex to cars colliding is appropriate (it is not; use of the sexual faculties between man and woman has, as a primary purpose, pregnancy. This isn't a case of an otherwise difficult to forecast or easily avoidable "accident" of the type "car collision" might represent).

If you think it is acceptable, im going to start treating your lot alot more differently. If you force me to live be your religious doctrine, you are my enemy.

This is hilarious, because whenever you decide to vote, you attempt to force others to live by whatever doctrine you embrace. It's you against the world, pal!

jaelyn91011 , Branith & Revolutionary_Type95 #wingnut reddit.com

(submitters note: responding to this image)

(jaelyn91011)
Just because someone's life is traumatic doesn't mean it would be better had they never been born... What kind of suicidal logic is that? I hate how they frame people who overcome trauma as "a few unicorns", nearly every person who's close to me has experienced horrific amounts of child abuse and survived.

And you know what? Every single one of them is glad to be alive. They survived, they fought, and they prevailed for their happiness, because the value of their life is not defined by their abusers.

The reality of the human experience is that we have the capacity to experience terrible suffering just as much as wonderful pleasure. Trying to prevent suffering by eliminating life that may suffer also robs them of any joy they might get. If you want to pull heartstrings over potential suffering in life, what about potential joy? Happy memories, having your first crush. Making a best friend. Falling in love. Holding hands, learning to sing to the radio, blowing out candles on a birthday cake - when you end a life you don't just take away the suffering. You take away the happiness, too.

It's suicidal logic. It's suicidal logic to claim its better to have never been born than to suffer.

(Branith)
In leftists eyes its always better killing someone. Pretty much sums up how those people think.

(Revolutionary_Type95)
I know a family that aborted a child, and as a result their other born child grew up lonely and neglected. Abortions donot only impact the unborn.

Even if you're wanted, that doesn't spare you from the possibility of being abused (as I've suffered the same myself) life includes suffering of one form or the other. That doesn't mean that we should kill everyone so that they don't have to experience them. Suffering can develop character, endurance, and resillience and a drive to help others in the same situation. We should be helping each other through our suffering instead of resorting to killing each other.

BiblicalChristianity #wingnut reddit.com

The three branches of pro-choice arguments: undervalue, dehumanize, and manipulate
(continued from https://fstdt.com/K34_ZSN48BX8K)
In general, while there is a legitimate discussion in cases of rape, under no circumstance is the fetus not a human or less of a human. Therefore, a fetus has inalienable human rights, including the right to remain alive.
Manipulate
Where should I start? In my experience in debating/discussing abortion, the unfortunate reality was that far too many arguments settle for manipulation instead of logical reasoning.

Politics has always been full of lies, so it's not surprising to see so many bad arguments packaged nicely and influencing the public opinion. But most of it is not even difficult to refute.

Some of these arguments, I admit, take more work, patience and knowing the root of the narrative and the hidden agenda behind them. I have my own thoughts of why people argue a certain way and what the narratives they use can cause in the long term. But that's a separate topic.

It's difficult to list these arguments but here are a few:

*"Pro-lifers don't care about humans after they are born" - While this is obviously false, the proper response should be that it's irrelevant. The only group of humans who are currently legally killed while innocent are fetuses. Framing this as if pro-lifers care only about fetuses is one manipulation that pro-choicers use often.

*"Pro-lifers shouldn't support the death penalty" - The death penalty can be discussed, but the subtle fallacy here is false equivalence between killing someone while innocent vs. after conviction of crime. You will hear arguments about false convictions... as if pro-lifers are OK with killing humans who are falsely convicted. It takes patience to untangle all these fallacies and refute them.

*"Being pro-life should mean approving universal healthcare" - Again while healthcare, taxes and other financial policies can be a discussion, having an opinion on the economic policies does not imply what you think about actually killing a human while innocent.

BiblicalChristianity #wingnut reddit.com

The three branches of pro-choice arguments: undervalue, dehumanize, and manipulate
I will try to summarize the arguments I hear from the pro-choice side. Note that this is about abortion-at-will, not about abortion to save a life (when the mother is in an unhealthy pregnancy).
Undervalue
This is simply believing that human lives a mere biological instance and don't have intrinsic value. While it is a rare argument that is openly put forward by pro-choice, in my opinion it is the most consistent and powerful argument they have. And it lies underneath most of their common arguments.

The reason they don't make that argument is that they know it would invalidate all arguments about human rights (including the rights they claim to defend).

When it is put forward though, you would have to go beyond politics and enter the religious/moral world to discuss this. But ultimately, you cannot convince someone to value anything, and if they decide to reject the value of human lives, discussions are likely a lost cause. Only pray, preach, and vote. Always be peaceful.

Dehumanize
Many pro-choicers claim fetuses are either not humans at all, or not humans enough. It is an unfortunate feature of humanity - believing those who do not look like us are not as human as we are.

It can come in the form of acknowledging fetuses as humans but with no rights to exist in the womb, or simply denying that fetuses are humans. Obviously fetuses are biologically humans, so it should be easy to refute arguments that deny that - just point to a biology book. Here are some of the arguments I see often:

*"Fetuses aren't humans. They are just clumps of cells" - Not much to say about this one. If two humans reproduce, their offspring is by definition a human. And all humans are clumps of cells.

*"Fetuses are humans but parasites" - While not many pro-choicers like saying this, it is how the pro-choice ideology treats fetuses. This indicates that because a fetus is living inside its mother

*"Life starts at birth" - Birth doesn't add anything to the fetus' life... it just makes it independent. This goes back to believing only independent humans can be valued and considering other humans as parasites.

[...]

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

(submitters note: responding to this meme: image)

(BiblicalChristianity)
This is one of their most effective manipulative arguments because pro-lifers fail to respond properly.

We should all remember that reducing crime isn't the purpose of the law.

Not that what they are saying is true, but that it's irrelevant.

(not_falling_down)

Not that what they are saying is true, but that it's irrelevant.

How is is "irrelevant"?

Even if you remain convinced that abortions should be outlawed, why would you not, in the meantime, push lawmakers to implement policies that are already know to reduce the number of abortions occurring?

(HPlusGuns)
"Give us free stuff so we don't murder our kids." Seems legit.

(FakeElectionMaker)
If you see abortion as murder, whether banning it reduces abortions should not matter, as abortion is wrong enough to be illegal regardless.

(Seeker_Seven)
If banning abortion doesn’t reduce the number of abortions, then what are pro-abortion people whining about right now?

(andisry)
Tbf, pro choicers are upset that the abortions are still happening outside the law in unsafe conditions that endanger the mothers' health. From my observations, even pro choicers who are personally against abortion prefer that it remains legal so that women who inevitably get them aren't endangering their lives trying to diy or go to unregulated illegal facilities

(CatholicAccountant)
To be fair hiring an assassin for a baby shouldn't ever be safe. Change my mind.

(XM_13)
In Texas it only reduced abortions overall by 10% because woman who want one and can travel will do so. (You can legislate it all you want, but there will always be demand for abortion- there has been for all of human history.) The reductions in abortion were mostly among women too poor to travel.

(Seeker_Seven)
10% sounds great, especially if we also get to rightly state in law that murder is illegal. As more states ban abortion, that reduction should increase, too. Eventually, we get a federal ban put in place. As you said, murder will still happen, as it always has - but it should still be illegal.

Various commenters #wingnut reddit.com

RE: My sister has disowned my dad

(Keeflinn)
This is the result of the widespread lying and fear-mongering that women need abortion.

(Only_Chick_Who)
Exactly she went straight to the girl in Ohio who had to go out of state for an abortion. My dad asked if she would ban abortion with exception of rape and mother health and she said it was a womans choice and women mattered more than a fetus.

(thepantsalethia)
Your poor father. Under so much pressure to accept evil. Hope he stands firm and stays strong. We are rooting for him. They want to use bully tactics to force their ideology on him. That’s not a good example of love. Let him know he is loved and respected.

(bpete3pete)
It's very interesting that everyone with a strong pro-abortion position was not aborted.

(BiblicalChristianity)
Morality divides families.

Jesus said he was bringing the sword for this reason.

(Nice_Book6009)
Yep, leftism is a cult

BiblicalChristianity #wingnut reddit.com

If abortion is banned, one generation will complain about it. But the next one will think it's normal and probably question what our generation was thinking... like slavery.

The current generation is just a reflection of what it was raised in. So once it passes, the vitriol will be gone.

The next generation will take responsibility on pregnancy as they will think it is normal. Of course there will always be exceptions and fringe political opinions.

BiblicalChristianity #wingnut reddit.com

Censoring dissent is a very crucial part of propaganda and effectively admitting that they don’t have truth on their side.

* If the internet existed before the US abolished slavery, it would be the same thing. Anyone who opposed slavery would be censored by those who preferred the convenience of legally owning a slave.

* If the Nazis had the internet, it would be the same thing. Anyone who opposed the holocaust would be censored by those who didn't care about the Jews and others they considered sub-human.

If pro-choice had actual good arguments, they wouldn’t need to censor dissent. But now all they do is block and ban.

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