Loki - They are changing him from an Alpha Male to a Beta. Stop it.
Loki seems to be slowly getting more and more depowered as time progresses through the Marvel timeline. But what is sadly the most devastating blow to the character seems to be that the writers who help to craft Loki’s personality seem to slowly be stripping away his alpha male characteristics and replacing them with beta male ones.
You have to admit that in the first Thor movie Loki put it all on the line when he tried to betray Thor and take his place as the leader of Asgard. He was a Man on a mission, and was willing to take huge risk’s and chances to get what he wanted. But now, it seems that Loki just wants to have power and status.
What changed? Well I believe that it is his knowledge that he wasn’t a blood heir to Odin, and that changed his frame and mindset of how he viewed himself. It changed who he believed he was. Instead of having a singular mission, a cause that he thought was worth fighting for. He felt that he was the only one who saw how reckless Thor was and how foolish it would be to make a Man like that king of the realms. So he did what he thought he had to to protect Asgard. But after learning he was the son of a frost giant king that changed everything for Loki.
Now because he feels what was once his rightful succession to leadership has now been replaced with just trying to be authentically an heir of power. Now Loki just wants power and is directionless.
This has changed Loki from an alpha male that was willing to sacrifice society for his own benefit to a beta that will bend to the winds of change as long as there is some scrap of leverage and power involved.
Hopefully there is some evil redemption for Loki.
See our discussion about Alpha vs Beta / Thor vs Loki at our following link to our YouTube video. https://youtu.be/dXyBZVXrvHA?list=PL_R0PYzy4FL3_QwQla1v4kmPKGXCgRR8t
Comments:
u/[deleted]
Loki was portrayed way less masculine than he originally was in older Marvel comics. Tom Hiddleston gave a somehow "classical" or "theatrical", glamourous interpretation of his moods. In the comics, he's a born destroyer, he's also ripped and his muscles fill each panel with envy and rage. In the movies he's certainly a lot less virile than he actually was meant to be, so I think he was "Beta" from the start
u/TalkTactic
You are right, Loki is a born destroyer in the comics.
You are right, Loki is ripped and his muscles fill each panel with envy and rage.
I never thought about Hiddleston's performance as glamorous, but after reading your comment I can see your point.I think the most important thing here is that in the comics Loki is a born destroyer whose ripped muscles filled every panel with envy and rage. There were no ripped muscles of envy and rage in the movies for Loki, and that is just a disservice to mankind - nuff said
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u/EvieWn
His primary motivation in the very first movie was an attempt to step out of Thor's shadow, implying that he's been following in Thor's footsteps his entire life. He's always been a beta, he tried being an alpha for a while and got himself thrown into the void, imprisoned, and his mother killed in the attempt, I think he's just trying to find a beta role that doesn't involve getting stepped on by Odin any longer.
u/TalkTactic
EvieWn you have some great insights about the movies. I think the implication that he has been following in Thor's footsteps his entire life is accurate.
"He's always been a beta, he tried being an alpha for a while and got himself thrown into the void," You might be right EvieWn, Loki may have always been a beta. So first I'd like to say that I don't think that men fit neatly into the dichotomy of Alpha and Beta. For the sake of discussion lets entertain that men do fall into one of those two camps, Loki very well may always have been a beta.
I think that many men in real life would identify themselves as beta and like Loki attempt to be "Alpha" and fail. But I believe that if men had to fit in the category of Alpha or beta then there would be some men that are naturally Alpha and some men that would be self-made Alphas. In one of our Talk Tactic videos we discuss three kinds of Alphas.
1. The Alpha who sacrifices society for himself.
2. The Alpha who sacrifices himself for society.
3. The Alpha who sacrifices himself for himself. you can watch that video at the following link if you like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdoUa7ZI2Hc&index=9&list=PL_R0PYzy4FL1GbXfj-UOqOFe9ze-qmjLz
Back to Loki, I want to say that Loki would very much fall into the category of 1 or 2 in the first Thor movie.Here are my reasons why I think Loki was Alpha in the first movie.
1. Loki sees that Odin is putting Thor; a reckless, arrogant person on the throne of Asgard. A person ready to war.
2. Loki sees that as a threat.
3. Loki chooses to foil Thor from getting on the throne.
4. Loki understands that he is risking it all but if he is successful he will benefit Asgard and himself.
5. Loki has a chance to align himself with his Odin and Thor after learning about their lies, but instead, Loki chooses to go his own way which means falling into the abyss into the void. If you read the James Campbell hero with a thousand faces, this sets up Loki as being ready to be reborn when he emerges from the void.
I think you may be right though, it is quite possible that Loki has always been beta.
We also did a video discussing how some authors define what an Alpha is. You can watch it at the following link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6p9H4NImU4&list=PL_R0PYzy4FL1GbXfj-UOqOFe9ze-qmjLz&index=2
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u/dangerphone
You know, they made Loki a woman in the comics for a few years. How does that fit into your alpha-beta dichotomy?
u/TalkTactic
Hello dangerphone thanks for that really great comment. Yes I realize that in the comics Loki did and would use and possess a female form. Also I believe that in some of the most recent comics there was a very ambiguous nature to how he identified his gender and sexuality. Just for clarification this is Michael Angelo responding to you because I don’t know how John feels about this. I see a contrast between the Alpha and Beta male in principle, but I think for the majority of men characteristics of Alpha and Beta attributes are embedded on a sort of spectrum. Each individual is different and what characteristics exist and the extent to which they are used in every individual’s personality is different. But typically if you are going to use the dichotomy of Alpha and Beta to divide men into two camps, the majority would fall into the Beta category. But back to your question, I think it is interesting that Loki who we identified as being the beta would also have been a woman for a time in the comics. Even now in his most recent adaptions his gender identity continues to be ambiguous and questionable. In a way Beta males take on feminine traits and characteristics and may also believe that feminine nature and qualities are superior to masculine ones. This would be in my view unhealthy because people should realize that masculine and feminine are both necessary and important and have been one of the key reasons for the success of humans on earth. But if Loki is a beta male than it would seem that his willingness to adapt his gender to acquire something he desires to compensate for something in his personality that he requires validation for, seems to be exactly the kind of difference we were describing between Thor and Loki in the video. How do you see things? I’d really be interested to hear your take.
u/dangerphone
Oh I was joking because alpha-beta theories are the domain of women-hating neck beards and alt-right children. I dislike everything about your theory and find it as deplorable and misguided as creationism. Sorry to get your hopes up for any sort of discussion.
u/TalkTactic
At Talk Tactic our mission is to encourage men who identify themselves as nice guys and to help them on their journey of reaching their vision of the good Man they want to become. Hopefully in that process of improving their lives they also improve the lives of those people closest to them which includes the most important women in their lives. Every person should seek to pursue liberty and happiness. It's unfortunate you chose to be vulgar and hurl insults.
u/dangerphone
I don’t believe I used a vulgar word but I understand if you read between the lines and got your feelings hurt. Loki becoming a woman, the power of Thor falling to Jane Foster, and many more characters exhibiting a greater diversity in gender, sexual orientation, and racial and ethnic identity shows that the comics industry is moving in the same way of the mainstream culture, towards a discarding of conservative and heteronormative values for values that foster the liberty and happiness for all. You seem to think liberty and happiness is earned by placing oneself at the top of a hierarchy, and so you will always be either be self-satisfied or insecure.
I do feel sorry for you, and do hope that one day you will look back on young self and shake your head ruefully. Because if you think if yourself liberated, you really have not found the edge of the cage.
[The argument continues in this fashion but the rest is too lengthy to post here.]